Please Help, my fish die overnight.

[ShakerBreaker]

RODI Water, Instant Ocean originally. Then I got a really good deal on Reef Crsystals so switched to that. After a week I noticed my alk was higher so reduced drastically the amount of reef crystals and used more of the regular instant ocean. All the fish were bought from the same store. The squirrel fish and allini damsel bought together, about 2 weeks later the 2 stripe damsel and starry blenny. The clownfish were bought months before.

Salinity is 1.025
Ammonia near 0,
Nitrate and Nitrites near 0
Phosphates near 0, maybe a tad above.
PH about 12.2, it;s always been about 12.1/12.2.
Calc. about 380

I did run some gfo and carbon for a couple weeks but after my first couple fish died I stopped and decided I didn't need to. Especially after checking my po4.

Here is a link to commonly kept Reef Parameters

Your PH is incredibly high. This is definitely the problem.

are you sure your salinity is 1.025? You said you recalibrate every time, what are you using to calibrate?

Here is my advice take a water sample to the fish store and ask them to verify salinity, ph, full test if they will do it.
I'm not saying you are doing it wrong, or that your test results arent true, but it's best to rule out faulty equipment and this is the easiest, fastest, and cheapest way to do that.

My hunch is that your salinity is way off and adding all that salt has increased your salinity, alkalinity, and ph.

If this is the case, do not overcorrect. use many water changes over many days to get things back in line so that you do not shock the fish that are still alive.

 

[Warpigdave]

Here is a link to commonly kept Reef Parameters

Your PH is incredibly high. This is definitely the problem.

are you sure your salinity is 1.025? You said you recalibrate every time, what are you using to calibrate?

Here is my advice take a water sample to the fish store and ask them to verify salinity, ph, full test if they will do it.
I'm not saying you are doing it wrong, or that your test results arent true, but it's best to rule out faulty equipment and this is the easiest, fastest, and cheapest way to do that.

My hunch is that your salinity is way off and adding all that salt has increased your salinity, alkalinity, and ph.

If this is the case, do not overcorrect. use many water changes over many days to get things back in line so that you do not shock the fish that are still alive.

I calibrate using

Here is a link to commonly kept Reef Parameters

Your PH is incredibly high. This is definitely the problem.

are you sure your salinity is 1.025? You said you recalibrate every time, what are you using to calibrate?

Here is my advice take a water sample to the fish store and ask them to verify salinity, ph, full test if they will do it.
I'm not saying you are doing it wrong, or that your test results arent true, but it's best to rule out faulty equipment and this is the easiest, fastest, and cheapest way to do that.

My hunch is that your salinity is way off and adding all that salt has increased your salinity, alkalinity, and ph.

If this is the case, do not overcorrect. use many water changes over many days to get things back in line so that you do not shock the fish that are still alive.

I’m sorry my ph is 8.2. Don’t know what i was thinking. I calibrate using brightwell solution.

 

[ShakerBreaker]

I calibrate using

I’m sorry my ph is 8.2. Don’t know what i was thinking. I calibrate using brightwell solution.

Oh good! Because I was thinking that whatever fish was living in 12 ph must be immortal.

In that case, can you clarify what fish and inverts you have living in your tank right now? Also what size heater do you have and ballpark how cold does it get in your basement at night

Also, what is your procedure for acclimating your fish?

 

[Warpigdave]

Here is a link to commonly kept Reef Parameters

Your PH is incredibly high. This is definitely the problem.

are you sure your salinity is 1.025? You said you recalibrate every time, what are you using to calibrate?

Here is my advice take a water sample to the fish store and ask them to verify salinity, ph, full test if they will do it.
I'm not saying you are doing it wrong, or that your test results arent true, but it's best to rule out faulty equipment and this is the easiest, fastest, and cheapest way to do that.

My hunch is that your salinity is way off and adding all that salt has increased your salinity, alkalinity, and ph.

If this is the case, do not overcorrect. use many water changes over many days to get things back in line so that you do not shock the fish that are still alive.

I calibrate using

Oh good! Because I was thinking that whatever fish was living in 12 ph must be immortal.

In that case, can you clarify what fish and inverts you have living in your tank right now? Also what size heater do you have and ballpark how cold does it get in your basement at night

Also, what is your procedure for acclimating your fish?

I have

Fish:
Flame Angel (never chased anything)
Tomini Tang (that I removed yesterday because I thought it was causing the deaths)
3 Zebra Barred Dartfish
Very small Yellow Watchman Goby
Solon Fairy Wrasse

Corals:
A monti
A bidnest (tiny)
a couple Zoas
Duncan

Inverts:
Coco Worm
Feather Worm
Maxima Clam
Nassarius Snail (about 5)
Trochus Snails (about 4)
Halloween Hermit
Fire Shrimp (never seen bother anything but clean the fish)
Mexican Hermits (about 6)
Fighting Conch (that I think has passed as well)
Maybe a pistol shrimp (but I haven't seen him in 2 weeks)

I feed phyto every 3 days. Reef roids spot feed twice a week. Water change every week or week and a half. Test parameters every 3 days. Maybe my test kit is bad, but says it doesn't expire until 2024.

I drip acclimate inverts and corals. Hardier fish I bag acclimate, setting the bag in tank water for 15 minutes, then empty a quarter water out (throw away), put in some tank water, repeat for about 45 minutes to a hour. Other fish drip acclimate. All start off well, eat well. Then one morning they are dead or missing. I'll see them the night before. That why I was thinking the water temp. All the fish that have died (minus the starry blenny are smaller), but the clowns and damsels are pretty hardy fish.

 

[i cant think]

I calibrate using

I have

Fish:
Flame Angel (never chased anything)
Tomini Tang (that I removed yesterday because I thought it was causing the deaths)
3 Zebra Barred Dartfish
Very small Yellow Watchman Goby
Solon Fairy Wrasse

Corals:
A monti
A bidnest (tiny)
a couple Zoas
Duncan

Inverts:
Coco Worm
Feather Worm
Maxima Clam
Nassarius Snail (about 5)
Trochus Snails (about 4)
Halloween Hermit
Fire Shrimp (never seen bother anything but clean the fish)
Mexican Hermits (about 6)
Fighting Conch (that I think has passed as well)
Maybe a pistol shrimp (but I haven't seen him in 2 weeks)

I feed phyto every 3 days. Reef roids spot feed twice a week. Water change every week or week and a half. Test parameters every 3 days. Maybe my test kit is bad, but says it doesn't expire until 2024.

I drip acclimate inverts and corals. Hardier fish I bag acclimate, setting the bag in tank water for 15 minutes, then empty a quarter water out (throw away), put in some tank water, repeat for about 45 minutes to a hour. Other fish drip acclimate. All start off well, eat well. Then one morning they are dead or missing. I'll see them the night before. That why I was thinking the water temp. All the fish that have died (minus the starry blenny are smaller), but the clowns and damsels are pretty hardy fish.

Usually CUC will only eat a dying/dead or a VERY unwell fish if it’s on its last fins. When you float do you measure the salinity first?

 

[Warpigdave]

In my tank no? I figure since I measure it every 2 or 3 days I wouldn’t need to

 

[i cant think]

In my tank no? I figure since I measure it every 2 or 3 days I wouldn’t need to

Both the tank and the bag water.

 

[Lavey29]

Sounds like straight fish aggression then unless there is disease in the water that several of the existing fish have developed immunity to so it is only affecting new fish. I would have a second source verify all your water parameters though.

 

[Warpigdave]

Sounds like straight fish aggression then unless there is disease in the water that several of the existing fish have developed immunity to so it is only affecting new fish. I would have a second source verify all your water parameters though.

So if it is aggression then why would my clowns that i had for 2 months die all of a sudden? Never seen a thing pick on them. And why would my starry blenny who was barely chased. Eat well at night then die the next morning. Are fish aggressive at night when the lights are off? I had taken my tang out before I even fed them at night.
I’m bringing a water sample in tomorrow.

 

[i cant think]

So if it is aggression then why would my clowns that i had for 2 months die all of a sudden? Never seen a thing pick on them. And why would my starry blenny who was barely chased. Eat well at night then die the next morning. Are fish aggressive at night when the lights are off? I had taken my tang out before I even fed them at night.
I’m bringing a water sample in tomorrow.

Was there any other bite or attack marks? Not just from the CUC but possibly something in the rocks or sand?

 

[Warpigdave]

Was there any other bite or attack marks? Not just from the CUC but possibly something in the rocks or sand?

No. I’ve gotten to 3 fish before the cuc and none showed those signs.

 

[ShakerBreaker]

Wish I could be more helpful to you, looks like all the simple answers are covered.

could be someone in the tank is getting more territorial as it gets older and more comfortable, but I feel like you would observe that in the daytime as well, things like beat-up fins. Alternatively, it could be a cascading reaction from the first fish you added that died whether disease or ammonia spikes.

Could be temperature swings, like you said, but the only way you are going to find that out is with a controller or staying up and measuring the temp every 30 minutes.

It's going to be a lot of could-be's.

I would hold off on adding fish for a couple of weeks, get yourself something to monitor the temperature and control your heater and just observe for a while. Possibly get a 10-gallon tank and start up a quarantine? by the time quarantine is over you'll be more comfortable adding fish to your display.

 

[brandon429]

How did we exclude fish disease immediately in a system that inputs non prepped fish from a pet store with repeated deaths that aren’t affecting corals and inverts


umps here are thinking bad params leave the cuc unaffected and only target fish? Cuc dont need oxygen?

oxygen and params aren’t the issue Dave

to rule out bias on my part post this exact same opening thread in the fish disease forum, they’re much less in denial. Non quarantiners outside the forum will never lead you to the right troubleshoots with practices they disavow, it’s not being mean it’s simply truth.


if after posting this lead up info, and fish sourcing, in the correct forum to troubleshoot losses they don’t immediately arrive at a need for pre assessment of fish before adding to a repeat loss tank where only fish die, I’ll retract my assessment. You can see the rate of losses are astounding from non prepped lfs fish once you begin stocking beyond simple clownfish, the species you’re stocking are absolute known vectors, tank needs to be fallowed if you want losses stopped. You don’t have nitrite, oxygen or param issues none of those are expected problems in a reef display they’re simply what non quarantine advocates fall back on, always.

also not mean: assessing that a few umpires here dont quarantine (I clicked their build threads to read) so it’s not outstanding nobody has mentioned that issue to you until now.

 

[i cant think]

How did we exclude fish disease immediately in a system that inputs non prepped fish from a pet store with repeated deaths that aren’t affecting corals and inverts


umps here are thinking bad params leave the cuc unaffected and only target fish? Cuc dont need oxygen?

oxygen and params aren’t the issue Dave

We haven’t excluded bad parameters however we went for the most obvious options first before going deep also, fish disease is caused by bad parameters and not all parameters effect CUC and Coral (My nano tank hit .035 in salinity quite easily in summer and nothing was affected then).

 

[brandon429]

Seriously Dave if you’ll post this thread in the disease forum with the exact description provided above, and a tank pic so the umpires who factor disease can see all details doing fine except for fish, you’ll get a quick and accurate tuneup for your system.

the reason you’re entire system is fine other than fish is because pet store fish vectored in a quick acting disease, this should have been relayed to you on page one but given the prior history of quarantine post battles, I am not surprised it wasn’t. You will get a fair assessment of your specific details elsewhere.


your fish don’t have to be visually covered in spots to know it’s disease, without a necropsy the symptoms and timing and location sourcing you provide are exactly how disease is assessed over there as nobody is doing necropsies but when using valid disease models, losses are dropping substantially

you just have to get umpires from the right forum to meet your symptoms.

 

[brandon429]

It’s not just a mere inconvenience to train others in disease denial, troubleshooting umpires fully contribute to fish losses on repeat-it’s a serious matter to make up issues about cycling params in a post cycle reef or oxygen issues where reef tanks don’t run low on oxygen as a supplant to basic disease preps.

Peers mislead each other and cause marked ongoing losses as they advise skipping of disease preps in mixed species setups, it’s amazing this continues into the new year. Non disease prep advocates are training each other for lots of wasting, it seems.


if disease had been mentioned and the exclusivity of losses aimed only at fish while corals and clean up crew are fine I wouldn’t think the umpires are as responsible as they are.

post cycle reefs don’t have trouble controlling ammonia and nitrite, and oxygen isn’t an issue in anyone’s open topped reef on the entire board. I can understand one or two posts with the mis info, but not two pages heading into a third without this core basic info being relayed to you.

 

[brandon429]

Right now in the disease forum Im about to be deservedly reamed for assessing a sandbed problem in place of obvious disease markers (only fish die, not clean up crew, we’d all assessed the sand as bad when it might have been just coincidental) so lump me into the bad ump lot heh. Dang it, my bias is bad sandbeds lol we all have a bias it seems and I like advocating qt, but was found missing the mark here:

EMERGENCY - 265 reef

I need some help I have a 265 Reef that’s been up and running for 20 years About two months ago I decide to do some aqua scape with my old rocks. I took about a third of the rocks out broke them up glue them back together. Nothing was in the system it was done totally outside of the system. I...

www.reef2reef.com

where I went wrong was not clicking ‘find all posts‘ from the Op and finding they break disease controls by adding untreated tangs. Dang it.

if someone isn’t providing disease control protocols like qt and fallow, that’s the first assumption of loss cause, not the last. There are commonly coincidental actions going on in the reef that take away focus from disease loss but the basic assessment is if preps are getting skipped, and fish die, it’s disease. Not a param.

 

[ShakerBreaker]

It’s not just a mere inconvenience to train others in disease denial, troubleshooting umpires fully contribute to fish losses on repeat-it’s a serious matter to make up issues about cycling params in a post cycle reef or oxygen issues where reef tanks don’t run low on oxygen as a supplant to basic disease preps.

Peers mislead each other and cause marked ongoing losses as they advise skipping of disease preps in mixed species setups, it’s amazing this continues into the new year. Non disease prep advocates are training each other for lots of wasting, it seems.


if disease had been mentioned and the exclusivity of losses aimed only at fish while corals and clean up crew are fine I wouldn’t think the umpires are as responsible as they are.

post cycle reefs don’t have trouble controlling ammonia and nitrite, and oxygen isn’t an issue in anyone’s open topped reef on the entire board. I can understand one or two posts with the mis info, but not two pages heading into a third without this core basic info being relayed to you.

Hey Brandon,

read the posts next time. of course, we went to parameters the ph was listed as 12.

None of us pursued disease because good luck figuring out what it was now that they are dead and gone.

The recommendation was to wait a few weeks to add more fish to make sure the fish that are still healthy stay healthy and get a quarantine tank. Just done gently instead of coming off like you bud. Chill out and don't put down people who are trying to help.

 

[Warpigdave]

Hey Brandon,

read the posts next time. of course, we went to parameters the ph was listed as 12.

None of us pursued disease because good luck figuring out what it was now that they are dead and gone.

The recommendation was to wait a few weeks to add more fish to make sure the fish that are still healthy stay healthy and get a quarantine tank. Just done gently instead of coming off like you bud. Chill out and don't put down people who are trying to help.

Yeah i was going with a qt tank and wait.