Please Help!! Spiny box Puffer with bad ich

[Rachelle G]

Ok, so my Spiny box puffer got ich. In a hurry I set up a 20g QT to get him out of the DT. I have been watching the other four fish (Unicorn tang approx 7", Volitan Lion app 6", Blue Hippo Tang approx 4" and a demon domino damsel approx 4") none of them are showing signs as of today. I pulled my puffer out 8 days ago. I did a lower salinity to 1.015 (not complete hyposalinty, I think I have read to make it 1.010). I am using Cupramine but at low level. Started yesterday, Today tested at .19 using Hanna Checker (read that puffers are more sensitive). My question is the other parameters ie: ammonia, nitrite, nitrate. This was an emergency pull so I did not cycle this tank in hopes of saving my puffer. He still has the white spots on him but he is eating. I do 10 gallon water changes almost daily first one was after 2 days. I am worried that I messed this up by pulling him to fast and not cycling a QT tank. I am also afraid that if I go ahead and remove copper and treat for the high readings, that won't help with the ich. I am so unsure on what to do. Oh, and I remove any uneaten food immediately after he stops taking it and any time I see anything on the bottom. It is a bare bottom tank with some PVC, one internal filter using just floss, one HOB filter with just floss. I have the water level lower than the HOB so it breaks the surface for oxygen.

I have attached some pics, so you can confirm it is Ich. I have never dealt with velvet or anything else before. Also a pic of my ammonia badge.

I am so sad and confused on what to do. I think I have read too much and just put myself in a state of confusion because each instance is different for others and not quite fitting all my questions. Please help

Current readings as of today after WC:
Temp at 79.8 using digital thermometer
Salinity: 1.015
Ammonia .25 (Worried about, can't get it lower when doing 50% WC)
Nitrite: .5 ppm using API (too high to use the Hanna Checker, worried about this number)
Nitrate: 40 ppm using API
PH: 8.0 using API

 

[fishguy242]

sorry to hear this ,best wishes ,expert help will come #reefsquad

 

[Big G]

You do not want to run Hypo salinity and copper at the same time. The lower the salt level the more toxic the copper becomes. I would never run copper below 1.017 ppm.

 

[Big G]

Hyposalinity
(Osmotic Shock Therapy)

What It Treats – Marine Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans) and Flukes (Monogeneans).

How To Treat – Place the fish you wish to treat in a quarantine tank with SG & temperature matching the tank they came from. Over a period of 48 hours, gradually lower the SG down to 1.009. You must use a perfectly calibrated refractometer at all times while doing hypo. Treat for 30 consecutive days, and during that time the SG must always remain at 1.009. If it inches up even slightly, the 30 day clock restarts. For this reason, many people use an auto top off system while performing hyposalinity. Some have even used hypo to successfully rid their display tank of ich, while others have failed. All corals and inverts must be removed beforehand if you wish to try this.

One of the challenges posed by hypo is maintaining a proper pH for the entire duration. While fish aren’t overly sensitive to low pH for short periods of time, anything continuously lower than 7.5 is going to be a problem. So, you will have to constantly test and then buffer the water to raise the pH. This can be accomplished by using supplements (available at most LFS) or you can “bake” your own DIY supplement by using baking soda. Spread baking soda onto a clean baking sheet, and bake at 300F for 1 hour. This process drives off carbon dioxide and water from the baking soda, and the result is an effective pH buffer. You will need to experiment (start with a very small amount) to determine how much is needed to raise your pH to the desired level.

Pros – Chemical free solution to Marine Ich, and is gentle on most fish. Scientific research also showed hyposalinity at 15 ppt (1.011 SG) for 2 days eliminated juvenile and adult flukes. When maintained for 5 days, egg hatching was prevented.

Cons/Side Effects – Difficult to execute properly, and hypo resistant strains of ich have been proven to exist (study done by Yambot in 2003.) In addition, hypo oftentimes will suppress (but not fully eradicate) other parasites such as velvet, brook and uronema. This does not become evident until salinity is raised. So, it is very important to be sure your fish has Marine Ich, and not some other parasitic infestation, before beginning hypo treatment.

 

[Rachelle G]

You do not want to run Hypo salinity and copper at the same time. The lower the salt level the more toxic the copper becomes. I would never run copper below 1.017 ppm.

I just retest, noticed when I tested my 120 reef it showed low. I recalibrated the refractometer and now my QT is reading 1.020

 

[fishguy242]

have to add careful not to cross contanminate

 

[Rachelle G]

Hyposalinity
(Osmotic Shock Therapy)

What It Treats – Marine Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans) and Flukes (Monogeneans).

How To Treat – Place the fish you wish to treat in a quarantine tank with SG & temperature matching the tank they came from. Over a period of 48 hours, gradually lower the SG down to 1.009. You must use a perfectly calibrated refractometer at all times while doing hypo. Treat for 30 consecutive days, and during that time the SG must always remain at 1.009. If it inches up even slightly, the 30 day clock restarts. For this reason, many people use an auto top off system while performing hyposalinity. Some have even used hypo to successfully rid their display tank of ich, while others have failed. All corals and inverts must be removed beforehand if you wish to try this.

One of the challenges posed by hypo is maintaining a proper pH for the entire duration. While fish aren’t overly sensitive to low pH for short periods of time, anything continuously lower than 7.5 is going to be a problem. So, you will have to constantly test and then buffer the water to raise the pH. This can be accomplished by using supplements (available at most LFS) or you can “bake” your own DIY supplement by using baking soda. Spread baking soda onto a clean baking sheet, and bake at 300F for 1 hour. This process drives off carbon dioxide and water from the baking soda, and the result is an effective pH buffer. You will need to experiment (start with a very small amount) to determine how much is needed to raise your pH to the desired level.

Pros – Chemical free solution to Marine Ich, and is gentle on most fish. Scientific research also showed hyposalinity at 15 ppt (1.011 SG) for 2 days eliminated juvenile and adult flukes. When maintained for 5 days, egg hatching was prevented.

Cons/Side Effects – Difficult to execute properly, and hypo resistant strains of ich have been proven to exist (study done by Yambot in 2003.) In addition, hypo oftentimes will suppress (but not fully eradicate) other parasites such as velvet, brook and uronema. This does not become evident until salinity is raised. So, it is very important to be sure your fish has Marine Ich, and not some other parasitic infestation, before beginning hypo treatment.

Is this the best way to go for the puffer? Do you agree from the pics that it is ich? Is keeping the other parameters such as ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate more difficult or the same (which I am having issues with). If only doing Hypo, can I put back the other filters like carbon, ammonia pads etc? With this method and no copper, should I put in some live rock? or other media that I have in my 120 sump?

 

[fishguy242]

just my opinion.. if only doing hypo yes carbon,ammo pads,would say no on live rock,also not sure how fast to lower salinity? please research before doing anything drastic or what i think!!! meantime others will chime in to help

 

[Rachelle G]

Also quick question, if doing hypo what refractometer would you use? I have the ATC and the lowest level it shows is 1.015. That is why I started the QT at, but raised over the period to do the copper instead now at 1.020.

 

[fishguy242]

good question,1 thing pops to mind calibrate "mis calibrate " by .010 ?? coming from no expert here.. @vetteguy53081 ,available? thanks

 

[Rachelle G]

good question,1 thing pops to mind calibrate "mis calibrate " by .010 ?? coming from no expert here.. @vetteguy53081 ,available? thanks

Found out My thing went out of calibration cause my wonderful hubby just told me he was messing with the screw not knowing he was messing up my instrument (it was sitting on kitchen table and he was on the phone playing with it....uggghhhhh). I just laid down the rules and said don't touch anything that has to do with my tanks!!!!

Anyways, how would you measure .010 when there are no lines below the .015? The information given stated it had to be exact. I am willing to buy another brand, if needed, just don't know what brand.

 

[fishguy242]

i am not sure ,but you can mis calibrate just as long as you remember by -010 should allow you to get there, again opinion,sorry is slow tonight #reefsquad and google,

 

[Rachelle G]

i am not sure ,but you can mis calibrate just as long as you remember by -010 should allow you to get there, again opinion,sorry is slow tonight #reefsquad and google,

I am looking at the digital refractometers, anyone use any of them?

 

[vetteguy53081]

I would do a water change, give puffer freshwater bath and treat with general cure which contains formalin. Copper may be a little harsh for treatment.

 

[Big G]

A standard refractometer for saltwater aquarium should read from 1.000 to 1.070 like this one below from Amazon:

 

[Rachelle G]

I would do a water change, give puffer freshwater bath and treat with general cure which contains formalin. Copper may be a little harsh for treatment.

I am sorry for the list of questions, but I want to get it right for my little fellow. How much water change? What salinity? Remove all copper (currently at .19)? I have never given a fish a fresh water bath not sure how to do that. I have read about it, but been afraid to do it cause I hear that if the ich is to bad, it can hurt the fish...that is what scares me cause I don't know what is considered bad. Like I said, I have over read things and put my brain in a state of confusion. I have only had to deal with ich on my Yellow tang in my 120 about a year ago, so I have very little experience with medicating.

 

[Rachelle G]

A standard refractometer for saltwater aquarium should read from 1.000 to 1.070 like this one below from Amazon:

wow, mine doesn't look like that at all. Buying a new one now. Thanks for the info.

 

[vetteguy53081]

That salinity is high. Go to 1.024
FW bath is freshwater with dechlorinator at same temp as tank for 2-3 minutes. Drop copper slightly as 15% water change will help accomplish that

 

[Big G]

wow, mine doesn't look like that at all. Buying a new one now. Thanks for the info.

Make sure to get a bottle of calibration fluid to zero in your new refractometer.
There are lots of refractometers on the market. Some are used for beer making, etc. Make sure you get one for saltwater.

 

[Rachelle G]

Make sure to get a bottle of calibration fluid to zero in your new refractometer.
There are lots of refractometers on the market. Some are used for beer making, etc. Make sure you get one for saltwater.

Yes, I noticed that, I told him I would get his own so he can make some beer...hehehe. I definitely made sure it said Marine/Saltwater