Please Help

ALAIRMORE · Oct 11, 2022

Hi,

I need help. My clowns are sick for the fist time in 12 years and I'm freaking out. I'm about 95% sure they have velvet "Pics Below" so I put them in a 10g QT tank with 450mg of CP and 200mg of nitrofurazone.

Prier to putting them in QT they were swimming and eating fine but had the tell tell sings of velvet. After 24 hours in QT they are just laying on the bottom of the glass and not eating.

Did I overdose!!

Is this normal progression of velvet? or is this from improper dosing of meds?

Thank you for any help.

vetteguy53081 · Oct 11, 2022

ALAIRMORE said:
Hi,

I need help. My clowns are sick for the fist time in 12 years and I'm freaking out. I'm about 95% sure they have velvet "Pics Below" so I put them in a 10g QT tank with 450mg of CP and 200mg of nitrofurazone.

Prier to putting them in QT they were swimming and eating fine but had the tell tell sings of velvet. After 24 hours in QT they are just laying on the bottom of the glass and not eating.

Did I overdose!!

Is this normal progression of velvet? or is this from improper dosing of meds?

Thank you for any help.

These guys have brooklynella (clown disease) with a case of secondary bacteria and lesions.
The most significant sign is the amount of slime on its body. The thick mucus on its body is a second sign which is noticeable on the fish. This mucus generally starts at the facial area as well as gills and spreads across the body producing lesions as it progresses often confused with ich and can turn into secondary bacteria. Other symptoms will be lethargic behavior, refusing to eat and heavy breathing from the mucus.
Typical treatment is a formalin solution is mixed with in a separate container with either fresh or saltwater. Start with a quick dip in the formalin at a higher concentration then performing treatment in a prolonged bath of formalin base at a lower concentration in a quarantine tank. The longer the fish are exposed to the formalin treatment the more effective it will be at eliminating this issue.
If a formalin solution is not available for immediate use, temporary relief can be achieved by giving the fish a FW bath or dip in water same temperature as display tank. Even though this treatment will not cure the disease, it can help to remove some of the parasites, as well as reduce the amount of mucus in the gills to assist with respiration problems.
Treatment is best done in a QT tank using either quick cure (more effective) or Ruby Rally Pro. Ruby takes a little longer and initial treatment generally takes 2-3 days to really start going to work.

ALAIRMORE · Oct 11, 2022

Hi Vetteguy Thank you for you quick response. I was thinking brook as well but doesn't brook kill clowns quickly? I originally thought they had ich and was treating them in the DT with polyp lab medic. After a few days the females white dots turned into a white powder dusting on top the male never showed symptoms. The female started flashing about a week/week and a half ago.

The real confusing part is the male showed no symptoms until I put him in the QT.

Adding a video of them in QT.

The ammonia alert is yellow with light on. I have a HOB with establish bio media from DT.

Jay Hemdal · Oct 11, 2022

ALAIRMORE said:
Hi,

I need help. My clowns are sick for the fist time in 12 years and I'm freaking out. I'm about 95% sure they have velvet "Pics Below" so I put them in a 10g QT tank with 450mg of CP and 200mg of nitrofurazone.

Prier to putting them in QT they were swimming and eating fine but had the tell tell sings of velvet. After 24 hours in QT they are just laying on the bottom of the glass and not eating.

Did I overdose!!

Is this normal progression of velvet? or is this from improper dosing of meds?

Thank you for any help.

Can you get a short video of them under white light?
Visually, true velvet typically shows just rapid breathing, glassy eyes and hovering in the current. The skin on these clowns looks more like Brooklynella, but I’d need images under white light to be surer
Have you added anything recent to the tank? I’m struggling to see how 12 year old fish would break with an apparent protozoan infection.
Your CP dose is only 12mg/l so that is the lowest dose typically used, so not an overdose. Check the ammonia though, it often spikes after a CP treatment.
Jay

ALAIRMORE · Oct 11, 2022

ALAIRMORE · Oct 11, 2022

Jay Hemdal said:
Can you get a short video of them under white light?
Visually, true velvet typically shows just rapid breathing, glassy eyes and hovering in the current. The skin on these clowns looks more like Brooklynella, but I’d need images under white light to be surer
Have you added anything recent to the tank? I’m struggling to see how 12 year old fish would break with an apparent protozoan infection.
Your CP dose is only 12mg/l so that is the lowest dose typically used, so not an overdose. Check the ammonia though, it often spikes after a CP treatment.
Jay

Yes, I added a royal dottyback that I didn't not QT like an idiot. The Dottyback died after a few days in the DT. A few days after that the female clown started flashing, and then the white dots turned into white dust.

The good news is they look better than yesterday. Now they are swimming a bit and even eat a few shrimp and a dry pellet.

I will do a 50% water change. I didn't know that CP can cause an ammonia spike.

Jay Hemdal · Oct 12, 2022

ALAIRMORE said:
Yes, I added a royal dottyback that I didn't not QT like an idiot. The Dottyback died after a few days in the DT. A few days after that the female clown started flashing, and then the white dots turned into white dust.

The good news is they look better than yesterday. Now they are swimming a bit and even eat a few shrimp and a dry pellet.

I will do a 50% water change. I didn't know that CP can cause an ammonia spike.

If you do a 50% water change, you'll need to redose the CP proportionally.

Here is a link to an article I wrote on CP:

Aquarium Fish: Chloroquine: A “New” Drug for Treating Fish Diseases

While not a panacea or miracle drug, chloroquine is experiencing resurgence in popularity for use in fish-only aquariums and quarantine systems to treat a variety of problems ranging from Cryptocaryon to Aiptasia anemone infestations.

reefs.com

Jay

ALAIRMORE · Oct 12, 2022

Jay Hemdal said:
If you do a 50% water change, you'll need to redose the CP proportionally.

Here is a link to an article I wrote on CP:

Aquarium Fish: Chloroquine: A “New” Drug for Treating Fish Diseases

While not a panacea or miracle drug, chloroquine is experiencing resurgence in popularity for use in fish-only aquariums and quarantine systems to treat a variety of problems ranging from Cryptocaryon to Aiptasia anemone infestations.

reefs.com

Jay

Thank you so much Jay. Yes I read your article it was super informative. I added 225mg of CP and 100mg of nitrofurantoin to the new 5g of water.

After the water change they did perk up a bit and ate a little more

ALAIRMORE · Oct 12, 2022

Jay Hemdal said:
Can you get a short video of them under white light?
Visually, true velvet typically shows just rapid breathing, glassy eyes and hovering in the current. The skin on these clowns looks more like Brooklynella, but I’d need images under white light to be surer
Have you added anything recent to the tank? I’m struggling to see how 12 year old fish would break with an apparent protozoan infection.
Your CP dose is only 12mg/l so that is the lowest dose typically used, so not an overdose. Check the ammonia though, it often spikes after a CP treatment.
Jay

Hi Jay under white light do you still think its brook? I really hope its not brook

Jay Hemdal · Oct 12, 2022

ALAIRMORE said:
Hi Jay under white light do you still think its brook? I really hope its not brook

Well, it isn't velvet. Without doing a microscopic skin scrape, there isn't really an easy way to determine that this is. Could be ich or it could be the start of Brooklynella. The CP will control both, so that's good.

Jay

ALAIRMORE · Oct 12, 2022

Jay Hemdal said:
Well, it isn't velvet. Without doing a microscopic skin scrape, there isn't really an easy way to determine that this is. Could be ich or it could be the start of Brooklynella. The CP will control both, so that's good.

Jay

Thank you Jay. fingers crossed its only ich.

Another question. What is the best way to control ammonia in QT with CP and nitrofurantoin? Im using a HOB with ceramic media from the DT but my ammonia alert is show slightly green.

vetteguy53081 · Oct 12, 2022

Im still seeing brooklynella here with asecondary bacteria.

Jay Hemdal · Oct 12, 2022

ALAIRMORE said:
Thank you Jay. fingers crossed its only ich.

Another question. What is the best way to control ammonia in QT with CP and nitrofurantoin? Im using a HOB with ceramic media from the DT but my ammonia alert is show slightly green.

With CP, you can control ammonia with various ammonia removing chemicals like Prime or Amquel, but water changes are best.

Jay

ALAIRMORE · Oct 15, 2022

Update:

Fish are improving, they both have a lot more energy and there apatite has increased. It was touch and go there for a bit but I think we are out of the woods!

Having said that. The male looks like he may have internal parasites, and Popeye.

What would be the best course of treatment?
Can I treat together with CP and nitrofurantoin?

Thank you all for your help. With out you I'm sure my fish would be in fishy heaven.

Jay Hemdal · Oct 16, 2022

ALAIRMORE said:
Update:

Fish are improving, they both have a lot more energy and there apatite has increased. It was touch and go there for a bit but I think we are out of the woods!

Having said that. The male looks like he may have internal parasites, and Popeye.

What would be the best course of treatment?
Can I treat together with CP and nitrofurantoin?

Thank you all for your help. With out you I'm sure my fish would be in fishy heaven.