Please Please Help my long unknown battle !

[Mrt88]

Hi all,


I have been fighting the bellow issue for well over a year now and it is getting the better of me.
I’m going to try to include as much info bellow as i have to hand.

Firstly, Its a 450L Fish only tank at the moment.
I have attached some photos of my issue. It is a reddish-brown-dark brown coating. It’s both on the sand bed and the rockwork.

I was previously advised that it was dinoflagellates by a friend, now I’m not sure. Taking that advice i have left the tank alone for over a month and let both my phosphate and nitrate rise.

Here are some results from today.

Salinity 1.024
Ph 8
Alk 6
No2 0
No3 50
Po4 0.5

I took an Ndoc test some time ago when i first noticed the issue. The results will be off by now for sure but it might help someone identify any issues.

Triton Lab Showroom - Explore this water test results and click on the image above.

Someone wants to show you the water test results and shared this link to the evaluation. Click on the image above to explore the water test results.

www.triton-lab.de

Now my observations.
- no major change at night with the lights out or the day.
- i have previously removed all the sand bed, power washed it and the issue returned a few days later on.
- Having previously used a red slime removed did have some mild results.

If anyone can help i would really really appreciate it. I have tried everything and starting to give up.

Thank you all
Theo

 

[Topekoms]

I see several issues I see some cyano and if you could get better pics with the whites on

 

[Mrt88]

Hi Topekomas,

Here are some photos under pure white.
I only run the lights at 10 % normaly as its fish only for now.

 

[redeyejedi]

I would get those nitrates down also use a towel or two to block natural light out until the tank lights come on. Helped a lot for me.

 

[Mrt88]

They used to be flat 0 and I was told to raise them. Think it’s gone too far.
The room they are in has no lights on when the tank is out.

 

[redeyejedi]

They used to be flat 0 and I was told to raise them. Think it’s gone too far.
The room they are in has no lights on when the tank is out.

Shoot for 5-10 nitrate

 

[Mrt88]

Thank you, does anyone have any advise on what I’m fighting here ?. I don’t have a microscope to have a closer look unfortunately

 

[Macbalacano]

To me, it just looks like cyano and some nuisance algae like GHA. I do not think its dinos, but truly the only way to know is with a microscope. But I doubt it based on the photos. Here is what I would do if I was in your shoes:

1. Shoot for these water params:

Salinity: 1.026
Alk: 7 - 9
No3: 25 or less
Po4: 0.05 - 0.1 (this is really variable depending on your Nitrates level, you can search around on this forum for redfield ratio etc..)
Mag: 1300-1500
Calcium 400-500

2. Add additional clean up crew, some recommendations:
Cerith Snails
Trochus Snails
Turbo Snails
Nassarius Snails
Conch

3. Remove as much of the algae and cyano by hand (scrub or siphon it)

4. Use chemiclean for cyano and follow instructions to a T!

5. For Nitrates and Phosphate reductions, I would try doing a refugium OR algae scrubber OR GFO OR NOPOX.

6. Check your water source, are you using RODI water? If not, that would be good to switch. If you already are, check your filters and TDS that it is 0.

7) Reduce whites on your lights

 

[Topekoms]

I would recommend with chemiclean treatment to start. Get the cyano out of the way to see what else is going on. Also what kind/size clean up crew do you have? Not seeing any in the pictures.

 

[Topekoms]

To me, it just looks like cyano and some nuisance algae like GHA. I do not think its dinos, but truly the only way to know is with a microscope. But I doubt it based on the photos. Here is what I would do if I was in your shoes:

1. Shoot for these water params:

Salinity: 1.026
Alk: 7 - 9
No3: 25 or less
Po4: 0.05 - 0.1 (this is really variable depending on your Nitrates level, you can search around on this forum for redfield ratio etc..)
Mag: 1300-1500
Calcium 400-500

2. Add additional clean up crew, some recommendations:
Cerith Snails
Trochus Snails
Turbo Snails
Nassarius Snails
Conch

3. Remove as much of the algae and cyano by hand (scrub or siphon it)

4. Use chemiclean for cyano and follow instructions to a T!

5. For Nitrates and Phosphate reductions, I would try doing a refugium OR algae scrubber OR GFO OR NOPOX.

6. Check your water source, are you using RODI water? If not, that would be good to switch. If you already are, check your filters and TDS that it is 0.

7) Reduce whites on your lights

I wouldn't mess with gfo or nopox at this point if he throws that many changes at once he won't know what is working and what is not. Waste of money. Take this one step at a time.

 

[Skynyrd Fish]

Can you also up the flow?

 

[Macbalacano]

I wouldn't mess with gfo or nopox at this point if he throws that many changes at once he won't know what is working and what is not. Waste of money. Take this one step at a time.

That is why I say OR. But yes, I agree. Personally i'm in favour of a fuge.

 

[Dan_P]

Hi all,


I have been fighting the bellow issue for well over a year now and it is getting the better of me.
I’m going to try to include as much info bellow as i have to hand.

Firstly, Its a 450L Fish only tank at the moment.
I have attached some photos of my issue. It is a reddish-brown-dark brown coating. It’s both on the sand bed and the rockwork.

I was previously advised that it was dinoflagellates by a friend, now I’m not sure. Taking that advice i have left the tank alone for over a month and let both my phosphate and nitrate rise.

Here are some results from today.

Salinity 1.024
Ph 8
Alk 6
No2 0
No3 50
Po4 0.5

I took an Ndoc test some time ago when i first noticed the issue. The results will be off by now for sure but it might help someone identify any issues.

Triton Lab Showroom - Explore this water test results and click on the image above.

Someone wants to show you the water test results and shared this link to the evaluation. Click on the image above to explore the water test results.

www.triton-lab.de

Now my observations.
- no major change at night with the lights out or the day.
- i have previously removed all the sand bed, power washed it and the issue returned a few days later on.
- Having previously used a red slime removed did have some mild results.

If anyone can help i would really really appreciate it. I have tried everything and starting to give up.

Thank you all
Theo

As was pointed out, there are several things going on. The green fuzzy stuff looks like green hair algae. Get a couple Mexican turbos to eat that stuff. Of course when it is gone, don’t forget to start feeding them.

Then there is what looks like cyanobacteria. In fact, all your issues seem to be with photosynthetic organisms. Turnoff the lights. They cannot live without lights. Regularly vacuum up the the growth on the sand. Don’t let that stuff accumulate. A surface vacuuming will be enough. Don’t throw the sand away. Wash it in tap water. Stir the bejeebers out of it with a power drill fitted with a paint stirrer.

Delay the addition of coral until you have this mess cleaned up. The lights out needs to last some time. Try two weeks. You don’t need to be super careful about the tank being in total dark. Just no tank light or window light. The idea is to make all those photosynthetic pests feel unwelcome.

You will need to be an experimentalist. There are no one size fits all remedies. After no lights for awhile, gradually have lights on for increasing amount of time each day. If the pests return, your system probably is not ready for full illumination yet.

 

[Mrt88]

Hi all,


Thank you so much for the input so far, I’m in the UK so please excuse the late reply. So to answer a few questions from above.

A few people mentioned chemiclean - its a total pain to get over here, something to do with one of the ingredients being vet only use. If anyone knows where i can get it that would be great.

I would recommend with chemiclean treatment to start. Get the cyano out of the way to see what else is going on. Also what kind/size clean up crew do you have? Not seeing any in the pictures.

I currently don’t have any. The issues started when i was about to add a large clean up crew, I held off to try chemiclean or something similar. Only because i didn’t want to kill them off just in case.

I didn’t want to add any now again till i can get the issues sorted.

6. Check your water source, are you using RODI water? If not, that would be good to switch. If you already are, check your filters and TDS that it is 0.

7) Reduce whites on your lights

So im running a Vertex double unit that reads 0tds on the out with 2 meters just to make sure. However i do have tds when it arrives in the top-up tank for some reason. I cant figure that one out.


I run the lights mostly blue at about 10% just to be able to see into the tank.

I did run a decent size refugium with one of the Prime Fuge leds. The cheto never did grow every well but my nitrates and phosphates where always 0 (as far as i could tell on my tests) That’s about when my issues started so i took it off aster some advice.

If anyone knows where i can get chemiclean in the uk that would be great to start with to see what happens. I can however get alternatives over here but not sure if they are as good.

Is there any benefit to using something like bightwells microbactor 7 or other beneficial microbes or am i wasting my money ?

Any more advice would be great.

Thanks again
Theo

 

[jt17]

Sounds a lot like dinos to me. In the long run it may cost less to buy a microscope and get an accurate id. If it is dinos then there are different treatments based on which specie of dino.
I had coolia and small cell amphidinium. UV helped with the coolia but not amphidinium. It was silicate dosing to induce a diatom bloom that outcompeted the amphidinium.
Part of my problem was I started with dry lifeless rock. Added bacteria in a bottle and that was it. There’s a whole range of micro fauna that accompanies live rock from the ocean that you can’t get in a bottle. So I got some mud from indo pacific aquaculture and that helped also.

 

[Topekoms]

I would give it a shot and see if they will send it to you

 

[redeyejedi]

Hi all,


Thank you so much for the input so far, I’m in the UK so please excuse the late reply. So to answer a few questions from above.

A few people mentioned chemiclean - its a total pain to get over here, something to do with one of the ingredients being vet only use. If anyone knows where i can get it that would be great.



I currently don’t have any. The issues started when i was about to add a large clean up crew, I held off to try chemiclean or something similar. Only because i didn’t want to kill them off just in case.

I didn’t want to add any now again till i can get the issues sorted.




So im running a Vertex double unit that reads 0tds on the out with 2 meters just to make sure. However i do have tds when it arrives in the top-up tank for some reason. I cant figure that one out.


I run the lights mostly blue at about 10% just to be able to see into the tank.

I did run a decent size refugium with one of the Prime Fuge leds. The cheto never did grow every well but my nitrates and phosphates where always 0 (as far as i could tell on my tests) That’s about when my issues started so i took it off aster some advice.

If anyone knows where i can get chemiclean in the uk that would be great to start with to see what happens. I can however get alternatives over here but not sure if they are as good.

Is there any benefit to using something like bightwells microbactor 7 or other beneficial microbes or am i wasting my money ?

Any more advice would be great.

Thanks again
Theo

Im in the uk and got some a couple of years ago that i still have somewhere but like you said is hard to get now. Look at some reviews on Fauna Marin Red X (250ml) says it treats cyano

 

[Macbalacano]

Hi all,


Thank you so much for the input so far, I’m in the UK so please excuse the late reply. So to answer a few questions from above.

A few people mentioned chemiclean - its a total pain to get over here, something to do with one of the ingredients being vet only use. If anyone knows where i can get it that would be great.



I currently don’t have any. The issues started when i was about to add a large clean up crew, I held off to try chemiclean or something similar. Only because i didn’t want to kill them off just in case.

I didn’t want to add any now again till i can get the issues sorted.




So im running a Vertex double unit that reads 0tds on the out with 2 meters just to make sure. However i do have tds when it arrives in the top-up tank for some reason. I cant figure that one out.


I run the lights mostly blue at about 10% just to be able to see into the tank.

I did run a decent size refugium with one of the Prime Fuge leds. The cheto never did grow every well but my nitrates and phosphates where always 0 (as far as i could tell on my tests) That’s about when my issues started so i took it off aster some advice.

If anyone knows where i can get chemiclean in the uk that would be great to start with to see what happens. I can however get alternatives over here but not sure if they are as good.

Is there any benefit to using something like bightwells microbactor 7 or other beneficial microbes or am i wasting my money ?

Any more advice would be great.

Thanks again
Theo

I'm in Canada and anytime I need something that is "not allowed or difficult" to get, eBay is my friend

 

[Mrt88]

Firstly I just want to thank everyone for there help so far with all the information.

What I want to ask is – Is there a definitive way of identification with a microscope ?



As with everything nowadays in the world, I don’t want to spend a fortune on something that I might only use a few times. I found this on amazon, Would this have the magnification needed to get an ID ?

Microscope - usb - Link

Sounds a lot like dinos to me. In the long run it may cost less to buy a microscope and get an accurate id. If it is dinos then there are different treatments based on which specie of dino.
I had coolia and small cell amphidinium. UV helped with the coolia but not amphidinium. It was silicate dosing to induce a diatom bloom that outcompeted the amphidinium.
Part of my problem was I started with dry lifeless rock. Added bacteria in a bottle and that was it. There’s a whole range of micro fauna that accompanies live rock from the ocean that you can’t get in a bottle. So I got some mud from indo pacific aquaculture and that helped also.

If it helps that’s how I started my tank, dry rock and dry sand with a bottle of Fritz nitrifying bacteria. That’s was over a year ago. Could I be lacking beneficial bacteria ?

Again thank you all for the help.
Theo

 

[Mrt88]

Just to add to the above. I’m going to describe how my tank is currently setup in case that helps anyone help me.

So its 450L red sea reefer.

I have 2 x AI Nero 5 wave makers in the main display.

In the sump, all the water goes through a claresea 3000 filter roller.

Then a Eheim 350 UV, think its undersized for this tank though.

Deltec skimmer

Carbon / Rowaphos in 1 reactor.

Then retuned back to the tank.

I did have a refugium that I took out as it stripped everything and stopped growing.

Not sure if its related to my issue but does anyone think my issues could be due to lack of beneficial bacteria or rock to harbour that bacteria ? or is that rubbish.