Please see pictures-sick fish

[Doglips56]

Have this fish in the trap while I get Copper Powe QT up and running. I don’t even know what kind of fish this is.

Please look at all photos. You will see it is only on one side but on chin crosses midline. Only bad area is near his right gill forward and under the chin but doesn’t go all the way to the other side. Not breathing heavy but kinda lethargic. Obviously still hungry because it went after the food in the trap.

Have been soaking food in Kanaplex and Focus for 5 days now and this started after we started the treatment

Just for a little history I have lost a mandarin goby (I didn’t QT it and that is when all these problems started) An apparently healthy pajama cardinal, a fire goby, an adult Solon fairy wrasse, a royal gramma and a file fish ...I think that’s it but they all start with lethargy and seem to lose their slime coat. Then they die or tank debris seems to stick to them for a couple of days, or they may get one or two white spots.
What is really odd is that only one fish gets sick at a time, some of them have never gotten sick at all but I’ll have a fish die once every 10 days or so. I’m at my wits end.

 

[Doglips56]

Bump

 

[Doglips56]

@Jay Hemdal

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Sorry - just saw this, it's been a busy night!

That is a purple Pseudochromis, but it seems a bit pale to me. Can you take a look at the message linked below my name at the bottom of this message, it contains information about other clues that will help us try to identify the issue here (water quality, etc.)

It is very odd to have fish die, one at a time so slowly like that. Typically, when a fish disease like ich or velvet gets going, it takes out the pretty quickly. From what I can see though, the invertebrates look good, so that does point back to some sort of fish disease.

If you post some additional info, I'll be back online around 10pm tonight and then again at 6:30 tomorrow morning (EST).

jay

 

[Doglips56]

I’m sorry I don’t see a link but can give you any information you want or need.
I can really only think of one thing but not sure why it wouldn’t effect inverts.
All parameters have been very stable for months. Temp 77-78
SpGr 1.026
dKH 7.8 (has dropped a bit)
pH 8.0
PO4 .03
NO3 10ppm
I have it in copper now for several hours, seems to be doing well.
This all started when I added a mandarin goby late spring/early summer. It was full grown and I already had a large pod population but added a gallon more from a local pod breeder. Also we had made our own food and I can send you pictures of the ingredients. They devour it. It’s a mix of finely chopped raw frozen tuna, squid, scallops, peeled shrimp, red and green algae with garlic, pelleted food, Dried seaweed and fresh orange and green roe which had no added ingredients. I have pictures. I usually QT everything but thought the mandarin wouldn’t do well so put it right in. I also didn’t QT the Solon fairy wrasse or bubble tip anemone that came with it as it came from a members tank and he’d had it for over 2 years. The purple guy came from a copper QT but I still kept it QT’d without copper for at least another month with a baby sailfin tang. The sailfin had been in the DT after QT but got into the trap when I was catching something else. It’s been in a fowlr tank and has never been sick nor has the coral beauty who has never been in the reef but gets the same food as the reef fish.
So back to square one. I do run UV 24/7 and have just upgraded to a larger UV. I have run a dual reactor off and on with GFO and Carbon and run a skimmer 24/7.
I just have no idea anymore. The only common denominator is they all get lethargic but are fast enough to avoid getting caught without the trap, they seem to get pale if they have a color you can see that on, this obvious area of disease has only shown up on1 other, the Royal gramma. Many of them have had white dots off and on. I do see some odd white patches on my yellow Cromie but only under blue/purple lighting. So far no symptoms and not sure it would tolerate the copper. My shrimp, lobster, porcelain crabs and hermit crabs are all thriving as are my anemone and hermits and snails.
Hope all this helps, sorry I can’t see the link! I looked for it!
Nancy

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Whew- I’m trying hard to follow all that, but I wasn’t able to figure out a few things: do you have any fish that are NOT affected (yet)? What a a yellow chromie? Have any of the fish shown rapid breathing?
I’m wondering just how related these cases actually are? The lethargy and pale coloration are pretty general symptoms...maybe not all of these losses were from the same cause?
Jay

 

[Doglips56]

Sorry did I say yellow chromis? I meant yellow coris wrasse. I have my clowns, diamond goby, lawnmower blenny, another PJ cardinal, 2 blue chromis and a small kole tang, and a cleaner wrasse that are unaffected. The clowns have been in there since day one and I don’t think I’ve lost even one of my original cleanup crew. PJ cardinal, blenny and diamond goby also have been in the tank for quite some time. Chromis and yellow coris wrasse I’ve had probably at least 6 mos and were QT’d but not in copper. I’m at my wits end. I don’t understand how I can just have apparently healthy fish get sick for no reason and die after 5-7 days of acting strange then nothing for a week to a month then another one. If they all end up dying I will have an invert and reef tank only I guess. Don’t know how I missed your link because now I see it. I read it and think I gave all the info. Will take pics of DT under white light tomorrow.
Thanks Jay. Sorry I wrote the above reply while I was at a zoom meeting.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

One more basic question - what size tank? I think you have around 9 fish left and had another 9 or so that died, just want to be sure your tank has space for all those fish.
Jay

 

[Doglips56]

125 DT with 40 gallon sump. Filter floss/refugium/skimmer/return pump. Right now the total inches of all remaining fish right around 14”, none are very big. This is what my red head Solon fairy wrasse looked like before it died, was sick for at least 5 days but still ate normally but looked bad They don’t breathe fast but this guy looked like he was yawning or gasping for air Broke my heart I don’t bring living creatures home to watch them die, I just really really don’t know what to think anymore I can take a picture or video under whites tomorrow but lights have been off for a while and they’re all sleeping

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Good - I was just worried you would say 20 gallons!

One idea; since you have the purple pseudochromis isolated, have you considered giving it a 5 minute freshwater dip to look for flukes? Careful, as they jump, but you just put it in a container of dechlorinated tap water for five minutes and then look at the bottom of the container for anything that looks like a worm or other parasite.
Jay

 

[Doglips56]

Good - I was just worried you would say 20 gallons!

One idea; since you have the purple pseudochromis isolated, have you considered giving it a 5 minute freshwater dip to look for flukes? Careful, as they jump, but you just put it in a container of dechlorinated tap water for five minutes and then look at the bottom of the container for anything that looks like a worm or other parasite.
Jay

I can do that tomorrow. I did that with one of the other sick ones but no flukes on that one. Sorry the pics are blurry and my typing not the best. I have a tremor from Parkinson’s and my fingers will hit wrong keys

 

[Jilly92]

Have this fish in the trap while I get Copper Powe QT up and running. I don’t even know what kind of fish this is.

Please look at all photos. You will see it is only on one side but on chin crosses midline. Only bad area is near his right gill forward and under the chin but doesn’t go all the way to the other side. Not breathing heavy but kinda lethargic. Obviously still hungry because it went after the food in the trap.

Have been soaking food in Kanaplex and Focus for 5 days now and this started after we started the treatment

Just for a little history I have lost a mandarin goby (I didn’t QT it and that is when all these problems started) An apparently healthy pajama cardinal, a fire goby, an adult Solon fairy wrasse, a royal gramma and a file fish ...I think that’s it but they all start with lethargy and seem to lose their slime coat. Then they die or tank debris seems to stick to them for a couple of days, or they may get one or two white spots.
What is really odd is that only one fish gets sick at a time, some of them have never gotten sick at all but I’ll have a fish die once every 10 days or so. I’m at my wits end.

Lymphocystis? Kind of looks that way from the photos

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I can do that tomorrow. I did that with one of the other sick ones but no flukes on that one. Sorry the pics are blurry and my typing not the best. I have a tremor from Parkinson’s and my fingers will hit wrong keys

So; there is another issue that I've sort of been avoiding bringing - fish do develop chronic disease issues. We are all much better at treating acute issues: ich, velvet, fin rot, etc. However, there are rarer, chronic internal issues that nobody really can treat well; Mycobacteria, Myxosporidians, internal nematodes, viruses, internal fungus. Many of these are species-specific, so all of one group of fish will die, but the others are fine. In your case, it seems more random, and no relation is present between those dying and those not affected. These issues require veterinary necropsy and histopathology to track down. Last year, I had a group of mixed fish from the Gulf of Mexico. They went through my standard quarantine and seemed fine. I lost a fish here and there, for no apparent reason, so I kept them all in the quarantine. The losses continued and I sent them out for histopath - they came back with granulomas that showed internal trematodes, for which there is no good treatment. I bring this up, hoping something like that isn't an issue with your tank, but for you to be aware of it....

Jay

 

[Doglips56]

So; there is another issue that I've sort of been avoiding bringing - fish do develop chronic disease issues. We are all much better at treating acute issues: ich, velvet, fin rot, etc. However, there are rarer, chronic internal issues that nobody really can treat well; Mycobacteria, Myxosporidians, internal nematodes, viruses, internal fungus. Many of these are species-specific, so all of one group of fish will die, but the others are fine. In your case, it seems more random, and no relation is present between those dying and those not affected. These issues require veterinary necropsy and histopathology to track down. Last year, I had a group of mixed fish from the Gulf of Mexico. They went through my standard quarantine and seemed fine. I lost a fish here and there, for no apparent reason, so I kept them all in the quarantine. The losses continued and I sent them out for histopath - they came back with granulomas that showed internal trematodes, for which there is no good treatment. I bring this up, hoping something like that isn't an issue with your tank, but for you to be aware of it....

Jay

So I wouldn’t even know where to send a dead fish but if that were the case is my tank doomed? Could it be fallow for a time (6months?) or do you know?

 

[Triggreef]

Interesting read. Looks more like injury to your purple dotty. Being it's around the gill area is guess from flashing /scratching on sand /rocks. Thinking flukes & Solon wrasse could be susceptible to that as well. And the tang too, but more likely to live with it longer. That would be my best guess and I see someone also already mentioned it. Prazi pro would be an in tank somewhat easy treatment. Will kill worms though so understand the effects of that if there are a lot of worms (bristle worms, feather dusters).

 

[Doglips56]

Interesting read. Looks more like injury to your purple dotty. Being it's around the gill area is guess from flashing /scratching on sand /rocks. Thinking flukes & Solon wrasse could be susceptible to that as well. And the tang too, but more likely to live with it longer. That would be my best guess and I see someone also already mentioned it. Prazi pro would be an in tank somewhat easy treatment. Will kill worms though so understand the effects of that if there are a lot of worms (bristle worms, feather dusters).

Is prazipro safe for my inverts? I have shrimp, lobster, multiple crabs, etc. hate the bristle worms so no biggie there. Don’t have any feather dusters I’m aware of. Will the copper kill flukes? It’s in copper right now

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Copper won’t kill skin flukes, it might work on some gill flukes. The prazi will kill your worms, but the real risk from that is if you have a TON of worms in the tank, and they all die, decomposition sets in, causing water quality issues. Always increase aeration when dosing with prazi. That all said, fluke infestations tend to worsen over time and not become a chronic loss like you are seeing.
Jay

 

[Doglips56]

OMG I just found an article about flukes written or published by @Humblefish and I believe it IS a fluke infestation. Pictures of fish with skin flukes and the description of behavior and the timelines all make sense now!! I have to treat everyone and no way I can catch them all for freshwater dips. I have Prazipro on hand and Ruby Reef Rally being delivered today. I should be able to catch the guy I have in copper in the QT TO DO A DIP BUT i suspect several of my fish have them and are just not really symptomatic yet. I have seen flashing by my yellow wrasse and diamond goby and lawnmower blenny, but when I asked my local reefer friends they all said that was normal behavior for those fish.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Earlier, you had said you had done a FW dip and didn’t see any flukes, so I went down a different path based on that. In reality - diagnostic dips can be tricky to analyze so perhaps I shouldn’t have dismissed your negative results.
Flukes normally ramp up slowly, but then get pretty severe...the issue with your fish seems more chronic. Still, a proper praziquantel treatment could be a course of action for you....
Jay

 

[Doglips56]

Earlier, you had said you had done a FW dip and didn’t see any flukes, so I went down a different path based on that. In reality - diagnostic dips can be tricky to analyze so perhaps I shouldn’t have dismissed your negative results.
Flukes normally ramp up slowly, but then get pretty severe...the issue with your fish seems more chronic. Still, a proper praziquantel treatment could be a course of action for you....
Jay

Hi Jay. I just want you to know how much I appreciate you! The one I dipped was a mandarin. It sincerely looked like it was convulsing the entire time, it was awful. But seemed a little better after I put him back in the tank. “I” didn’t see anything but truth be told my vision in my left eye is very bad from glaucoma damage and I may have missed anything really tiny. All the other symptoms fit perfectly. I was too busy dealing with my health problems to do my own serious research, was relying mostly on the experience of my friends and you and the forum. But I realized after all our discussions and actually looking up pictures of fish with flukes and then reading the humblefish article that it was like a facepalm! Odd thing is I searched the forum using the search tool and it didn’t come up, it came up on a Google search! All 3 tanks have been treated with PraziPro since there are fish in each one who were in the tank with the flukes. I’ve never seen a worm in my DT, not even after lights out but know for sure there are bristleworms in the refugium. Will keep track of that and remove dead ones daily.
Thanks so much Jay!