Plumbing a sump manifold

[Weasel1960]

I have been researching how to do this and all the diagram examples show the water going through the manifold being dumped right back into the sump…why is that? Aren’t you just recirculating some of that water over and over?

I am looking into a double pump return. One pump will be the primary straight back to the display. The other pump will run through a UV then a Carbon Reactor, then back to the display. Looking at ways to design manifold for pump 2. Any help appreciated.

 

[DaddyFish]

One thing to consider is which components of your system are likely to be "set and forget" flow rates. UV and Carbon reactor probably YES. That means you can adjust your pump for that return circuit and match the gate valve setting on the drain to achieve a completely silent drain.
You may not be able to accomplish that with the other components you plan to run off the manifold. And it can become a very tedious task to keep the drain gate balanced against a cumulative return flow that's constantly and significantly changing. For that reason alone you may consider returning the manifold to the sump. Keeps your return to the tank consistent, despite taking things on/off line or tweaking flow on the manifold circuit.

 

[JumboShrimp]

I'm trying to follow you. Generally speaking, a manifold is used so that one does not have to have multiple pumps. The single (fairly powerful?) return pump is made to do double or triple duty (or more) by means of the manifold. Meaning that in addition to just being a "return" pump, that pump also "does" other things-- like feed a UV or a reactor.

 

[Weasel1960]

One thing to consider is which components of your system are likely to be "set and forget" flow rates. UV and Carbon reactor probably YES. That means you can adjust your pump for that return circuit and match the gate valve setting on the drain to achieve a completely silent drain.
You may not be able to accomplish that with the other components you plan to run off the manifold. And it can become a very tedious task to keep the drain gate balanced against a cumulative return flow that's constantly and significantly changing. For that reason alone you may consider returning the manifold to the sump. Keeps your return to the tank consistent, despite taking things on/off line or tweaking flow on the manifold circuit.

Thanks at this point in time I am only looking to run those two pieces of equipment. The MD will eventually have 2 pair of h erectus seahorses along with other peaceful fish, etc. I was thinking returning the UV/carbon to one side of the tank and the other pump to the other side of the tank.

 

[Weasel1960]

I'm trying to follow you. Generally speaking, a manifold is used so that one does not have to have multiple pumps. The single (fairly powerful?) return pump is made to do double or triple duty (or more) by means of the manifold. Meaning that in addition to just being a "return" pump, that pump also "does" other things-- like feed a UV or a reactor.

I have read several posts and articles about having a redundant pump, one fails the other is still working. Regardless of one pump or two the main question is why does the manifold go back into the sump.

I understand @DaddyFish response of control but then again if you are running multiple reactors off a manifold doesn’t a fair amount of that treated water just keep recirculating in the sump? Might then the parameters in the sump be slightly differnt than the display because of the recirculated water always being treated?

 

[Spieg]

Are you going to run a chiller for your sea horses (IIRC they like water in the low 70s)? If so, you may want to have a branch of your manifold dedicated to feed that as well.

 

[JumboShrimp]

Sounds like we deserve photos when you're finished! As to the UV, I think you already know this, that returning it to the DT is preferable, but can be tricky-- especially if you have Eurobracing. But pumping into the UV from one side of the sump and returning to another side of the sump-- such as to where the DT return pump is-- should eventually get the job done. Best wishes!

 

[JumboShrimp]

(As to your main question, I think I would have to agree that anything going sump-to-sump will never be "AS" efficient as going sump-to-DT, in terms of water quality/parameters in the DT itself).

 

[Weasel1960]

Are you going to run a chiller for your sea horses (IIRC they like water in the low 70s)? If so, you may want to have a branch of your manifold dedicated to feed that as well.

Thanks for the suggestion. At this point in time probably will not be needed. Live in Wisconsin so between heating and cooling the house we stay fairly consistent at an out 71 or 72. Certainly would be a good idea to add a branch to the manifold just in case though.

 

[JumboShrimp]

As a side note, I see BRS started selling manifolds about 5-6 months ago. I have no idea about the quality, versus what you might want or need; and of course there is the customization/versatility factor when you construct one yourself.

 

[Weasel1960]

Sounds like we deserve photos when you're finished! As to the UV, I think you already know this, that returning it to the DT is preferable, but can be tricky-- especially if you have Eurobracing. But pumping into the UV from one side of the sump and returning to another side of the sump-- such as to where the DT return pump is-- should eventually get the job done. Best wishes!

Most definitely once I get started on the build. Not a euro braced, looking at an Aqueon 120 reef ready. Are you saying to put a pump somewhere else in the sump and pump the UV into the return chamber? Where would the best place for that pump be…skimmer section or refugium or partition off a separate section just for that pump?

 

[Weasel1960]

As a side note, I see BRS started selling manifolds about 5-6 months ago. I have no idea about the quality, versus what you might want or need; and of course there is the customization/versatility factor when you construct one yourself.

Will check it out, I had not seen the manifold on their site. Not afraid of a little DIY, saves some money so I can buy something else.

 

[JumboShrimp]

Let's say for illustration sake you have a 3' long, 4-chamber linear sump. Left-to-right:

DT water down 'IN' to a filter sock / skimmer area / bio media reactor or rubble rock area / water back 'OUT' to the DT.

I would probably pull water for the UV that is less 'filthy'-- meaning from the 3rd (rubble rock) area, after it has been socked & skimmed-- and release it back into the last chamber to go up into the DT.

(Again, this is still technically sump-to-sump, and not as efficient as the ideal sump-to-DT.)

 

[JumboShrimp]

I happen to have a cheap dedicated Jebao in my sump, running water from one sump section through silicone tubing (expensive but flexible!) through the UV to another sump section. I could just as easily incorporate a manifold.

 

[JumboShrimp]

Any way you slice it, manifolds can be fun to fool around with. One time I used one valve to run a DIY algae scrubber.

 

[Weasel1960]

Let's say for illustration sake you have a 3' long, 4-chamber linear sump. Left-to-right:

DT water down 'IN' to a filter sock / skimmer area / bio media reactor or rubble rock area / water back 'OUT' to the DT.

I would probably pull water for the UV that is less 'filthy'-- meaning from the 3rd (rubble rock) area, after it has been socked & skimmed-- and release it back into the last chamber to go up into the DT.

(Again, this is still technically sump-to-sump, and not as efficient as the ideal sump-to-DT.)

Good visual. Yes technically sump to sump but once in the return section (4) it is going to the DT not back up to the skimmer section.

What if section 3 is also refugium, will that cause any issues?

Just checked out the BRS manifolds…pretty pricey and you are stuck with that size which means then you have to buy some tubing anyway. Looks like I will DIY that part.

 

[Weasel1960]

I happen to have a cheap dedicated Jebao in my sump, running water from one sump section through silicone tubing (expensive but flexible!) through the UV to another sump section. I could just as easily incorporate a manifold.

I have been looking at the jebao pumps, powerheads, etc. at least to get started with. Have read reviews on both sides of the fence. What has your experience been?

 

[JumboShrimp]

Check out my build thread— I’m probably over $12K (lost track) on my two 150s with equipment and fish, but personally, I don’t dump money into expensive pumps that simply push water around. (Depending on size), call a Jebao $110-$150? I have them running 24/7 (can’t say I clean them... but I should), and have about 2-3 years out of them so far. When they break, I’ll consider them ‘disposable’ / the cost of running a tank, and buy another one.

 

[Weasel1960]

Yup pretty much the way I am planning it…don’t need a designer name on my jeans or in my hobby. Thanks much for sharing.