Plumbing Question please!

MasterBacon · Sep 19, 2016

Any plumbing experts awake? I want to add an extra sump/refugium in my garage but don't know how to balance the flow to and from cause of where the tank is.
Any ideas? The garage door is the left through the little doorway. Behind the wall, behind the tank, is a hallway with laundry room, closet and 1/2 bathroom.

Reefing Madness · Sep 20, 2016

redfishbluefish · Sep 20, 2016

I believe what you are saying is that the open doorway is preventing you from running a pipe directly from the back of the tank to the garage.

You really can't go up and over this doorway without some major headaches.

And you don't show the detail of the area behind wall the tank sits on.....is there a path the plumging could take going out the back side of the tank and maybe through the closet/laundry room to eventually get to the garage?

Otherwise, I think your options are to fit the sump in the laundry room/closet/bathroom (if that's possible), go down into the basement (if there is one), or move the entire DT to a location that allows access to the garage.

JMTC

MasterBacon · Sep 20, 2016

redfishbluefish said:
I believe what you are saying is that the open doorway is preventing you from running a pipe directly from the back of the tank to the garage.

You really can't go up and over this doorway without some major headaches.

And you don't show the detail of the area behind wall the tank sits on.....is there a path the plumging could take going out the back side of the tank and maybe through the closet/laundry room to eventually get to the garage?

Otherwise, I think your options are to fit the sump in the laundry room/closet/bathroom (if that's possible), go down into the basement (if there is one), or move the entire DT to a location that allows access to the garage.

JMTC

Up and over was my thought but I can't rely on gravity at that point and trying to match head pressure with the return from sump in the garage. That's where the support is needed.
The tank can only go in that location as my fireplace sits against the garage door wall. Behind the tank wall is open hallway the other rooms are against the outside wall.

redfishbluefish · Sep 20, 2016

Is there a basement or crawl space where you could run the plumbing down and over to the garage?

danknuc · Sep 20, 2016

Based on the information you have given, I would say you need two pumps. Pump #1 pumps water from your overflow box to your sump and has a high water shutoff in the sump so the sump does not overflow and you want a low water shut off in your overflow box so the pump does not go dry. Pump #2 pumps water from the sump back to the display and has a low water shutoff in the sump so it does not go dry. You would then put the level sensor for your ATO in the display but feed the top-off water into the sump.
You can get a little fancy by having pump #1 be a constant speed and pump #2 be a DC variable speed that has a level controller in the sump so if pump #1 is restricted at all then pump #2 would slow down to match the water level in the sump. I think this is the preferable method so you don't have pump #2 cycling on and off. This option can be very expensive since variable level controllers with variable DC outputs cost big bucks.
A third option would be to have a pump #2 and pump #3 return on the sump. Pump #2 would be sized slightly less than pump #1 so it runs constantly and pump #3 when combined with pump #2 is slightly more design flow than pump #1. You would then have pump #3 cycle on and off with level in your sump so you always have flow to and from the sump from pump #1 and #2 with #3 being your level control. There might be a pump package on the market that does all of this but I do not know about any.
Good Luck

MasterBacon · Sep 20, 2016

redfishbluefish said:
Is there a basement or crawl space where you could run the plumbing down and over to the garage?

Unfortunately not. I have even thought about raising the floor in the hallway to run pipes.

kenandmoose2 · Sep 20, 2016

Danknuc is right and if you used the votech pumps. The l1 or m1 they can be linked wirelessly and work together.

MasterBacon · Sep 20, 2016

danknuc said:
Based on the information you have given, I would say you need two pumps. Pump #1 pumps water from your overflow box to your sump and has a high water shutoff in the sump so the sump does not overflow and you want a low water shut off in your overflow box so the pump does not go dry. Pump #2 pumps water from the sump back to the display and has a low water shutoff in the sump so it does not go dry. You would then put the level sensor for your ATO in the display but feed the top-off water into the sump.
You can get a little fancy by having pump #1 be a constant speed and pump #2 be a DC variable speed that has a level controller in the sump so if pump #1 is restricted at all then pump #2 would slow down to match the water level in the sump. I think this is the preferable method so you don't have pump #2 cycling on and off. This option can be very expensive since variable level controllers with variable DC outputs cost big bucks.
A third option would be to have a pump #2 and pump #3 return on the sump. Pump #2 would be sized slightly less than pump #1 so it runs constantly and pump #3 when combined with pump #2 is slightly more design flow than pump #1. You would then have pump #3 cycle on and off with level in your sump so you always have flow to and from the sump from pump #1 and #2 with #3 being your level control. There might be a pump package on the market that does all of this but I do not know about any.
Good Luck

Can you quick sketch and snap a pic . I'm more visual.

danknuc · Sep 21, 2016

MasterBacon said:
Can you quick sketch and snap a pic . I'm more visual.

If you run the pipes along side each other and keep them the same lengths and sizes you could probably use the same size pumps. The only head differences would be the height of your overflow to the height of your sump. One side benefit of using a Pump #3 would be the varying flow at the return nozzle in your display. You would also want a check valve at the output of pumps #2 and #3 so you don't short circuit flow back to your sump.