Plumbing Question

[fyrfytr]

Sorry for the noob question here or if this is something I should know by now in my reefing research...but after losing all of the fish in my tank I am questioning just how much I really do know and understand.

This time around I want to run a QT along with my tank, and try and talk the wife into a fuge/sump at the same time. It is my hope that I can turn the 10gal QT into a frag tank in time. That being said, as I run my plumbing for the tank to sump/fuge...can I put the QT/future frag tank in the loop so to say? I know that setting this up would require a few extra T-fittings and a few extra ball/gate valves, but it would allow for flow through the tank when there was no inhabitents and already have it ready already for frags or as an emergency hospital tank. I know once it has QT fish in it that I will have to take it offline and all, but It is just a thought

 

[Singlefin]

If i understand this correctly, I would have to say no. You want 3 tanks in the loop? It probably wouldn't be worth the hassle. You would have to pump the water in and out at almost the exact same speed or drill holes in the frag and sump and connect them below the water line.

 

[Singlefin]

If you don't have a fuge/sump right now, I would highly recommend it. Makes things cleaner and easier.

 

[Murfman]

I have my frag tank run in loop with my DT and sump. I can turn the frag tank of, remove the corals and use it as a QT, any time I need it. DT is 300, sump 125 and frag tank about 22. I control flow into the FT via a ball valve on my overflow return to my sump. I used to have it run off my closed loop but if the return pump stops working, you have a flood. By being on the overflow to the sump, if the return pump stops working, the FT doesn't get supplied any water. The FT drains into the sump/fuge via a bulkhead and ball valve.

 

[fyrfytr]

@singlefin - I do not have a sump/fuge yet, working on the right price for a 20gal tall/deep that I can put under my stand since a 10gal wont work out to enough space for evertything...plus I would rather have the additional volume. What I want to do is like murfman said, plumb it in and then be able to take it out of the loop. I plan on slowly adding fish to the DT so there will be a longer term time for a QT so having something established would make things a lot easier to tare down and put back together all the time. I want to turn the QT into a frag tank, so I would be able to turn it on and off as needed

 

[falconerr]

I could be not understanding you totally, but the main purpose of a qt is to have a separate system not to introduce parasites into your dt. The setup you are describing it is going to allow parasites and other harmful diseases into your dt.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC

 

[fyrfytr]

You probably don't understand me fully becuse I was close to half asleep when I wrote that. Now that I am somewhat awake and functioning, let me try this again.

What I am looking to do is do my plumbing once. I know that I want to have a QT for my fish and this time and once I have all of my fish I would like to dive into coral. From reading I have seen that fragging corals is a good way to assist with financing the hobby as well as a great way to trade for some stuff for the tank. That being said a frag tank is on the list of things as well. So the goal is to turn the QT into a frag tank once I am done with it being a QT. My thought, there is a benifit with a frag tank in use if I have an emergency I can move the frags into the DT and have a already setup QT/hospital tank already set up and ready for fish. Plumbing thought was to run from the DT to the frag tank/qt....from the frag/qt to the sump/fuge...then back up to the DT. Strategic placement of t-fittings and ball/gate valves will allow for diverting water to or away from the frag/qt tank.

Overall thought is that I can keep the tank in the system until it needs to be removed and then fairly easily put it back into the system again until it is needed. This would allow me to have a tank at the ready anytime to QT fish without the extra expence of having everything turnedon all the time

 

[grumpy-crab]

A QT can be simple and not complex. No special lighting and all u need is a heater and even a cheap filter and pump set up will work fine for it. And your water changes u can use the water removed from your TD so all the numbers match from tank to tank. But dont connect your QT to your DT system because that defeats the purpose of a QT.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Reef2Reef Aquarium Forum mobile app

 

[Singlefin]

If you have it as a qt tank, and need to medicate your fish with copper or cupramine or something, you may never want that tank back in your system.

 

[Mike2112]

How I am reading it, you want to use your QT to become your Frag tank. Build your main system: DT, FT and Sump and leave the QT out of the loop. You never know when you will need a hospital tank or a QT.. Just get a tank from Petco on thier $1 per gallon sale for your FT and plumb that into the sump, DT system.

 

[fyrfytr]

@grumpy - I am aware that QT tanks are simple in nature. No sand, no rock...just heater and maybe a mechanical filter and some flow. All cheap on eBay. I know that the idea behind the QT is to keep things away and out of the DT but my thought was with the ball/gate valves that I could isolate the tank when it needed to be isolated and then when I dont need to isolate it I can open it up and add it to the total gallonage (is that a word even) of the system and then easily incorperate it into a frag tank when I am ready for that.

@singlefin - we meet again, lol. I never thought about the tank being medically/chemically comprimised. I guess I just assumed that I could clean the tank out and be able to use it again in the future

@mike - you are reading it correct, a little sleep does wonders for my descriptions I guess. I have a 36gal bowfront tank and a stand to match (package deal) so space is at a premium under the stand. Having a 3yr old who loves fish (the reason for having this tank) and an 8 month old in the house I am trying to keep everything as contained as possible in the stand. That is why I want to try and multipurpose the tank as best as I can. As for the tank itself, I already have it. Not with the last PetCo sale but the one before it, I went looking for a 55gal. My local PetCo said they didnt have any but if I was looking for a smaller tank they had some I would want to come in for. Not a far drive I went...some computer glitch marked the 10 gal tanks incorrectly. Instead of the $13.48 they were marked differently from the $1/gal to a odd price of $1.46. I picked up 2 of them, not sure why 2 but I did. I have one earmarked as a glowfish tank for my sons room as soon as we figure out where to put it, the other is sitting and waiting for use with this marine tank.

 

[Pappy]

Never plumb a qt to your dt period. Put water in qt a couple PVC pipes for fish to hide and a hob filter. When done qting empty tank. The silicone will absorb copper, cupramine, etc...then leach later. Therefore once that tank has been treated never can u put coral or inverts in it.

 

[Justunsmegareef]

i would say NO on that and turning a QT into a frag is okay as long as you dont have sand and what not, alot of chems kill your bacteria on your rock and sand

 

[Singlefin]

Haha. I promise I'm not stalking you. You don't have to always have the qt running. Keep it in storage. You don't have to use medication on new fish. I guess you can just observe them if you don't want to put medication in the tank.

 

[fyrfytr]

@justunsmegareef - QT would obviously be sandless. As for the frag tank, not sure how I would set that up. Still getting the main tank and sump set up in my mind...have a long time before the frag tank becomes reality

@singlefin - I have no problem with people stalking my posts so long as long as they are perticipating in the discussion and giving good info :bigsmile:

The reason that I am looking to "keep it running" is that I see adding fish to the tank as a long term process. That being said the abulity to not have to contunually take it in and out of storage is what i am looking for.

 

[fyrfytr]

SO as the water parameters are coming in line...would it be a bad think to syphon off 8-10 gal for a water change....and then put that water into a 10gal that I am going to use as a QT?

 

[bluwinghawk]

interesting Idea i can see it being done with quick connect unions and gate valves and any treatment to QT can be isolated and tested before put back on line as far as old DT water to top off QT why not now you got me back to the drawing board lol

 

[fragmatic]

IMO, Yes you can.

Here is my setup. My 90 is my display tank. It feeds into a sump. The water is pumped back from the sump to the display. In the sump is a second pump. This pump feeds a stack of tees with valves on them. One valve feeds my 1st refugium, one valve feeds my 2nd refugium (was a frag tank), one valve feeds my GFO & Carbon reactors, and one valve was feeding my bio pellet reactor but I fired it and capped that valved pipe for now. The 1st refugium is a tall so it is drilled on the side and overflows back to the sump. The 2nd refugium is on my desk front next to the display tank and I drilled it in the bottom so over flow is an easy matter back to the sump. I have valves in both the fill and overflow piping of the second refugium so that I can isolate it anytime I need to. The plumbing to the 2nd has clear plastic tubing so it can be removed easily. So... it COULD be a QT anytime or later become a frag or refugium when you need to do that.

My thinking, the more tanks on a system the more kinds of animal life and diversity you can have. So, I try to make them as versatile as possible. I expect I will add tanks, I dauh know, but the next tank will not be able to drain back to the sump during a power outage unless I increase the depth of my sump. I guess that means I'm looking for a taller acrylic tank to fit where my sump is. I expect I'll have to build it.

My new current reason for a second refugium is to have a "display" refugium with a nice clam and other creatures.

BTW, my 2nd refugium is a 20 long I got from PetSmart during a $1 per gallon sale, that sale is on again right now.

 

[fyrfytr]

@bluwing - I think that fragmatic and I are on the same page with our design theory, just not in the same order. For my idea the thought came from the thought that more water is better and the fact that there is always cycled water in what can be a QT in an emergency. Few ball/gate valves allow water to flow through the tank when its not in use as a QT and then shut the gates to isolate the tank when its in use.

 

[Mike2112]

While the design that you are proposing is interesting and the desire to have more system volume and diversity is a warrented concept, I still feel that you are missing the point of the QT/Hospital tank idea. You do not want the the QT/Hospital tank in the loop at all. It should be its own system. The idea of a QT tank is to prevent infectious diseases from entering the Display Tank system. One of the biggest diseases--Marine Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans)-- and the other mean one--Marine Velvet (Amyloodinium ocellatum)--have life cycles where they are encysted and not effected by copper based treatments. The copper can kill the tomont phase (attached to the host) of the parasites but the fish's own body does offer some immunity to the copper treatment by its mucious coating or the tomont burrowed too deep into the host. The copper kills the fee swimming phases of the parasite (once detached before encystment and after "hatching"--protomont and tomites stages respectfully). The cysts can stay dormant for upto 28 days for Marine Ich and 5 weeks for Marine Velvet. That is a long time the the fish would appear "cured" when in reallity the parasites are massing for another "offensive attack".

What I see as an issue with plumbing your QT system with valves and connectors to be used "as needed" is that you can flush the cysts of these two nasty parasites into your DT system when you return the QT setup back online and inline with your DT system. The way to ensure erradication of the cysts is to leave the QT system Fallow for 60 days before you put them back inline or to drain and sanitize with bleach, where the chlorine ions will destroy the cyst wall and kill the tomites wating to hatch. Then I propose to you as the aquarist...Are you 100% positive that the parasites are completely destroyed and you will have the piece of mind to to put the QT tank back inline with the DT system? What about the residual chlorine that is left behind from sanatizing? Chlorine is a toxin to the lives in the DT...Are you sure you got it removed? These are just some questions you need to think long and hard about. I do see the "neatness" of your proposed setup, but the QT system should be by itself. It can be set up at a moments notice (use system water to fill it) when needed then break it down when you don't. If you want to keep it running that is fine too, but it should be its own little enviroment.

Resources used for this: Marine Ich (cryptocaryon irritans) - the real scoop - Reef Central Online Community ; Marine Velvet - Myths and Facts ; MrSaltwaterTank and Steve Pro's book The No-Nonsense Guide to Marine Fish Diseases, Quarantine and Treatments located at: Mr. Saltwater Tank | Success Store as well as reading books by Robert Fenner and Michael Paleta.

This is just my opion on your suggestion backed by what I believe is sound scientific research and knowledge on why I believe you should not do what you propose. This as I said is my opinion, do with it as you feel fit. If you proceed with your design, I wish you the best of luck with the exicution of the plumbing and with the well being of the lives in your care.

-Mike