Plumbing question

[Hitman]

Helping a buddy this weekend set up his 125 RR tank. It has corner overflows with 1 return and 1 drain in each corner. The drain is 1" and the returns are 3/4". We will run 1" all the way to his refugium/sump.
My question is would it be best to run 1-1/2" from his pump up to the center of the tank then split to 2 pipes 1-1/2" each over to the return bulkheads where we would step down to 3/4"?
He plans on either the Abyzz A100 or A200 for a pump if that makes any difference.

 

[mfinn]

I would be tempted to use both corner overflows for just overflows and run dual herbie's, and plumb in a over the top return and use a smaller return pump.

 

[Grigs]

Below is a link to a calculator that will help you see the relationships between ID, flow, and headloss if you want to get nerdie on it...

http://www.irrigation.wsu.edu/Content/Calculators/General/Pipeline-Pressure-Loss.php

REALLY tough to say without having the pump curves, but I believe that you will have a minimal difference in available flow by running over the top or to the corners.

I say that mathematically you should do whichever you prefer assuming that you run 1.5".

When you start running 3/4" over distance your headloss increases dramatically. A 6" run creates twice the headloss (0.2psi) that a 5' run of 1.5"(0.1psi) does at these flowrates...

A 5' run of 3/4" produces headloss of 1.5psi

The Abyzz only produces 8.5psi max discharge pressure and you are already losing 2.1psi just getting to 5' in height...

Interesting to see...

 

[Hitman]

Below is a link to a calculator that will help you see the relationships between ID, flow, and headloss if you want to get nerdie on it...

http://www.irrigation.wsu.edu/Content/Calculators/General/Pipeline-Pressure-Loss.php

REALLY tough to say without having the pump curves, but I believe that you will have a minimal difference in available flow by running over the top or to the corners.

I say that mathematically you should do whichever you prefer assuming that you run 1.5".

When you start running 3/4" over distance your headloss increases dramatically. A 6" run creates twice the headloss (0.2psi) that a 5' run of 1.5"(0.1psi) does at these flowrates...

A 5' run of 3/4" produces headloss of 1.5psi

The Abyzz only produces 8.5psi max discharge pressure and you are already losing 2.1psi just getting to 5' in height...

Interesting to see...

Thank you this helps a lot!!!

 

[Grigs]

Np. Also, what I forgot to mention is that flowrate is proportional to the square root of differential pressure, so that will give you an idea of your actual losses. Again, extremely tough without the pump curves, but losing d/p is ROUGH on flow...

 

[Hitman]

Here's a ruff drawing of the new plans. What's your thoughts?
Nothing to scale just a fast drawing after looking at the tank in his stand with a 75 gallon tank we are making into a sump/refugium set up just like my 90 I built for my 240.

 

[mfinn]

Even though I said to consider a over the top return, do you plan on using a canopy to hide the extra plumbing? ( something to consider)
I would move the skimmer into the drain area and as far away from the return pump as possible to help eliminate micro bubbles.
I would add gate valves to the main drain lines.

 

[cracker]

I like Mfinn's idea !

 

[Hitman]

Even though I said to consider a over the top return, do you plan on using a canopy to hide the extra plumbing? ( something to consider)
I would move the skimmer into the drain area and as far away from the return pump as possible to help eliminate micro bubbles.
I would add gate valves to the main drain lines.

I think he is going over the top but it's his tank. Lol

Yes on the canopy. He will have 4 Kessil A360's and 2 - 60" T5 retro kit fixtures with 4 ATI bulbs, as well as 6 fans 4 small ones for air movement and 1 on each side for heat with vents on the top to draw air in. He had the stand and canopy custom made.

Gate valves on the main drains only correct? Nothing on the emergency drains.

I agree with you on the Skimmer location as that's how mine is. He wants his flipped as in the drawing as he is going to run the Triton method and that's how they say to lay it out. I tried to explain that it would still work as I basically am running a modified Triton method without the cost but he is stuck on it. Lol

 

[mfinn]

I think he is going over the top but it's his tank. Lol

Yes on the canopy. He will have 4 Kessil A360's and 2 - 60" T5 retro kit fixtures with 4 ATI bulbs, as well as 6 fans 4 small ones for air movement and 1 on each side for heat with vents on the top to draw air in. He had the stand and canopy custom made.

Gate valves on the main drains only correct? Nothing on the emergency drains.

I agree with you on the Skimmer location as that's how mine is. He wants his flipped as in the drawing as he is going to run the Triton method and that's how they say to lay it out. I tried to explain that it would still work as I basically am running a modified Triton method without the cost but he is stuck on it. Lol

Yeah, only needs the valves on the main drains.

I see alot of people with skimmers next to the return chamber, but in some cases, that's where micro bubbles end up getting back into the display tank.

 

[Hitman]

Yeah, only needs the valves on the main drains.

I see alot of people with skimmers next to the return chamber, but in some cases, that's where micro bubbles end up getting back into the display tank.

I couldn't agree more. I'm just the weekend help doing what I'm told tho. Lol

 

[JoshH]

I couldn't agree more. I'm just the weekend help doing what I'm told tho. Lol

Tell him @mfinn told him to do it that way, he'll listen

Not much for me to add, all the advice above is solid.

 

[Hitman]

;Hilarious;Hilarious;Hilarious

 

[Grigs]

Looks great! Check valve on pump discharge, right?

 

[Hitman]

Looks great! Check valve on pump discharge, right?

No they create more issues then benefits. They create back pressure and if you don't clean them everyother week they are known to stick open. Been there done that mistake. I'll never run one again. Plus the 75 gallon sump/refugium will only have about 30 gallons in it so plenty of safety margin. Same design as my 90 which is only a few inches taller then a 75. Just switching refugium and Skimmer location from mine as he is convinced that he has to to run the full Triton method. I'm trying to get him on here but he is not a forum or even social media guy. He hates social media so much that he won't let our kids bring phones, tablets or anything over. Heck his own kids cant visit with electronics Lol. He read about Triton in a magazine and thinks it the only way and I can't get him to budge.

 

[dugthefish]

I would use the 3/4" for the siphons, and 1" for emergencies. I had the same setup on a RR 125, 2x3/4" full siphons easily handled ~1500gph return pump, and 2x1" emergencies could handle it as well.

 

[Grigs]

No they create more issues then benefits. They create back pressure and if you don't clean them everyother week they are known to stick open. Been there done that mistake. I'll never run one again. Plus the 75 gallon sump/refugium will only have about 30 gallons in it so plenty of safety margin. Same design as my 90 which is only a few inches taller then a 75. Just switching refugium and Skimmer location from mine as he is convinced that he has to to run the full Triton method. I'm trying to get him on here but he is not a forum or even social media guy. He hates social media so much that he won't let our kids bring phones, tablets or anything over. Heck his own kids cant visit with electronics Lol. He read about Triton in a magazine and thinks it the only way and I can't get him to budge.

Thx for the insight!

 

[Hitman]

I would use the 3/4" for the siphons, and 1" for emergencies. I had the same setup on a RR 125, 2x3/4" full siphons easily handled ~1500gph return pump, and 2x1" emergencies could handle it as well.

Do you still run a gate valve on them?
And is there any surging or noise?
It came with a durso setup that I could just remove the loc-line from I guess

 

[dugthefish]

Do you still run a gate valve on them?
And is there any surging or noise?

Gate valves on siphons, I ran the 1" emergencies valveless and dry. Took some finagling, but for the most part, dead silent.

 

[mfinn]

Do you still run a gate valve on them?
And is there any surging or noise?
It came with a durso setup that I could just remove the loc-line from I guess

Every herbie overflow I've setup worked great.
No surging or noise.
You close the gate valve until there is only water running through it and the water line on the emergency drain is near the top of the pipe.
I would use the 1" for the main drain.
Just a little bit less likely to get plugged because of the bigger size.