Poll: Auto this, auto that. Gone too far for me.

[cdness]

Personally I am a bit torn on this one... There are things that are beneficial and things that are not. I believe the benefits do outweigh the drawbacks though...

1. Notifications - How many have gone on a vacation only to return to a total mess in the tank? My alerting will let me know something is up and I can make a call to another local reefer who can assist the tank sitter with the more advanced stuff.

2. Consistency - This is maintained best with gradual automation. An ATO for salinity and water levels, dosers for the rest. Whatever process used, it is better than manual dosing to maintain consistency. Still not required, but better as you always hear "Consistency is key" in this hobby.

3. Remote access, single point control and automatically tracking parameters are nice options to have...

Now the issues:

1. People rely on them too much to prevent those "newbie" mistakes. Controllers are going to do what you tell them to do. Make a mistake and the controllers don't know any better, unless YOU tell them what is a problem. Example on the older style Apex, if the temp probe died, it would read super low temps. If you didn't know this and provgram your controller to catch this, it could cook your tank. Or set the thermostat on the heater, but this isn't in the instructions...

2. I do feel they tend to disconnect the owner from their tank a bit and they may not learn some of the signs of issues in the tank, relying on the controller to tell them something is wrong...

 

[Daltrey]

if you have stuff that mantains your tank for you , it is taking all the skill out of keeping a marine tank. its like having a modern car these days , you dont drive it , you just point it in the direction you want it to go. All the skill of doing everything in life is slowly being taken away from us by technology. You wont even need to know how to write things like this soon , you will just talk and send

Talk and send has been out for a long time. I am doing it now from my Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge. Just for the record my entire house is automated and voice activated. It doesn't just apply to aquariums.

 

[A Toadstool Leather]

Automation cannot go too far imo. In most cases automation=stability which ensures a healthier tank. Automated systems are especially great for nano tanks that tend to be less stable.

 

[hart24601]

So I hear a lot in the thread about wants and needs. So here is my question.


Does anyone here have huge acro colonies, let's say 12" or more, and has no automation? So dosing by 2 part by hand, no ATO, just maybe a light timer?

If anyone has a tank with huge acro colonies and doses 2 part by hand please post some pics especially if you have been growing those huge SPS colonies for several years and manually adding top up water and dosing 2 part.

I am curious if some automation is needed for tanks like that. My old sps tank had a 4-5dkh per day drop, I just don't know if it's possible in the real world to hand dose that up for a couple of years. Even dosing that much alk once a day by hand seems like it would cause issues. Now sure yes if one just wants to argue it is possible to dose 2 part 24 times a day by hand, but let's not be silly.

Wants and needs can vary drastically depending on what live stock you keep. At times we tend to lump everything into "reef tank", but really there are drastically different livestock and requirements.

 

[ChrisOFL]

I think the pricing on the automation systems are just completely unrealistic. I'd have to spend close to $1500 just for a controllable power strip, two powerheads, a dosing pump , and some monitoring probes that I don't really need. I don't need to constantly know what my salinity, pH, and ORP is 24/7 so those are just a bunch of expensive unnecessary probes that raise the price of these products. Consistency of alk/calc/mag can easily be achieved for most people with kalkwasser ATO and some manual magnesium dosing. It is also strange to me how the prices of these products never go down. The technology is not new or innovative so we should see a reduction over time with some components of these products. The worst part too, is that a lot of the new products only work with the newer automation systems so if you have one of the original controllers, it loses functionality over time. I'd be willing to bet that when an automated testing station is released, which will definitely cost a ridiculous amount of money, I'm sure we will see start seeing plenty of people in the future claiming how you can't live without it because the "manual testing isn't accurate and will cause you problems with your tank."

 

[MnFish1]

I have to go out of town for 8 days at a time for work... without automation I would not be able to be in this hobby.

This is a dumb argument because it's subjective.

Its a discussion - not an argument. 'Automation' is such a generic term that its hard to have an 'argument' about it. FWIW, I would never consider leaving my tank alone for 8 days - without a 'house-sitter' Even with my apex, etc.

 

[A Toadstool Leather]

I think the pricing on the automation systems are just completely unrealistic. I'd have to spend close to $1500 just for a controllable power strip, two powerheads, a dosing pump , and some monitoring probes that I don't really need. I don't need to constantly know what my salinity, pH, and ORP is 24/7 so those are just a bunch of expensive unnecessary probes that raise the price of these products. Consistency of alk/calc/mag can easily be achieved for most people with kalkwasser ATO and some manual magnesium dosing. It is also strange to me how the prices of these products never go down. The technology is not new or innovative so we should see a reduction over time with some components of these products. The worst part too, is that a lot of the new products only work with the newer automation systems so if you have one of the original controllers, it loses functionality over time. I'd be willing to bet that when an automated testing station is released, which will definitely cost a ridiculous amount of money, I'm sure we will see start seeing plenty of people in the future claiming how you can't live without it because the "manual testing isn't accurate and will cause you problems with your tank."

I agree, I have wanted an ato but it would cost me 150$. I cannot imagine the cost of automating a larger tank.

 

[Newb73]

So whats everyones PAR throughout the day? Ph? Orp? Temps?

What happens to your setup if a skimmer overflows or a pipe gets a leak and you aren't home?

How stable is your dosing?

What happens if your pumps fail while you arent home?

What happens if a heater gets stuck while your gone?

You aren't doing your water changes w buckets all at once like a cave man are you?

 

[Newb73]

Personally I am a bit torn on this one... There are things that are beneficial and things that are not. I believe the benefits do outweigh the drawbacks though...

1. Notifications - How many have gone on a vacation only to return to a total mess in the tank? My alerting will let me know something is up and I can make a call to another local reefer who can assist the tank sitter with the more advanced stuff.

2. Consistency - This is maintained best with gradual automation. An ATO for salinity and water levels, dosers for the rest. Whatever process used, it is better than manual dosing to maintain consistency. Still not required, but better as you always hear "Consistency is key" in this hobby.

3. Remote access, single point control and automatically tracking parameters are nice options to have...

Now the issues:

1. People rely on them too much to prevent those "newbie" mistakes. Controllers are going to do what you tell them to do. Make a mistake and the controllers don't know any better, unless YOU tell them what is a problem. Example on the older style Apex, if the temp probe died, it would read super low temps. If you didn't know this and provgram your controller to catch this, it could cook your tank. Or set the thermostat on the heater, but this isn't in the instructions...

2. I do feel they tend to disconnect the owner from their tank a bit and they may not learn some of the signs of issues in the tank, relying on the controller to tell them something is wrong...

Does this look "disconnected"???

Im 500 miles from home right now....

 

[Daltrey]

I agree, I have wanted an ato but it would cost me 150$. I cannot imagine the cost of automating a larger tank.

Trust me, stick with a float valve for ato. How often do you hear of people's toilets overflowing. It's basically the same thing. Just as a redundancy if mine sticks it can only allow 15 gallons and it still won't overflow my sump. It is enough to last a whole week.

Lol, disconnected. I'm just getting started.

Hey newb73, What are you using to measure calcium?

 

[Newb73]

Trust me, stick with a float valve for ato. How often do you hear of people's toilets overflowing. It's basically the same thing. Just as a redundancy if mine sticks it can only allow 15 gallons and it still won't overflow my sump. It is enough to last a whole week.


Hey newb73, What are you using to measure calcium?

Red sea but am not happy w my new refill kit..its measuring like 500 but i am using Fritz so it might be accurate.

What you see is just a graph the apex let's you input to for all the kits.

 

[Caseyoidae]

I got along fine with out all the automation for years.. I'd stick my arm in for a temp probe and open the window to deal with heat. I got an apex this year for my birthday and now the air conditioner kicks on if my tank goes above 79.6 degrees. I'm not sure how I ever got along with out it now lol

 

[Bruzzerfish]

As long as it improves my tank,i don’t mind.

 

[Specfishin]

I used to have minimal automation, i'm completely "in the need" of full on automation now.
Key points.
1. Manual dosing isnt cutting it anymore. Need consistency and i'm working way too much now.
2. Stability -- enough said.
3. Spent tons of money on beautiful living creatures. Why not spend a tad more on automation?
4. I want to just enjoy my tank. Not be a slave to it.

I have acros and hungry fish. I am unable to be home as much as i'd like and i enjoy staring at whats developed in my glass cage. While full automation may have left me somewhat clueless on some issues in the early days, i think it will not keep you dumb and numb to issues arising in your tank. You always need to check up on your tank as often as possible. Then again I may be obssessed with this hobby. Plan on going with a GHL setup shortly and say goodbye to my trusty reefkeeper. I need wifi and smart dosing options and some more monitoring.

Look i'm all about less technology intrusion in the home, but robot vaccumns, lighting controls and hvac monitoring? There's alot of benefits to some technology. My wife would agree.

 

[atoll]

I have no idea how my tanks survived so many years with minimal technology control.

 

[ca1ore]

I see nothing wrong with automation and technology, as long as one retains enough critical thinking (an endangered trait these days) to be able to spot a problem without an 'alarm' telling you there's a problem. Sure, there are technology options available that seem unnecessary, and a poor choice for disposable $$; but that's ultimately up to the consumer. As a long time reefer (30 plus years) I can tell you from experience that you don't want to go back to the wild and wooly early days where much of the technology available was repurposed from other applications. For example, when I first started using metal halide/HQI lighting in about 1987 (a DuplaSun LI fixture) there were no aquarium-designed bulbs available and I had to use a neutral daylight (nominally 5000K) Osram double ended bulb. Putuwee!

 

[Velcro]

I have no idea how my tanks survived so many years with minimal technology control.

Luck. Or you have too much time on your hands.

 

[MarsRover]

I casted a no vote, but I do not disagree with the OP's premise. There is such a thing as over-automation.

As an engineer, I DONT like the automation available on the market today, and the price point is completely bonkers!

This is why I have made/am making own automation.

I think robot literacy is an important skill for all as our future progresses to present. If you want to learn how to do things yourself, ask! I can help. In my build thread I have tried to document everything, and will continue to so others may follow!

 

[atoll]

Luck. Or you have too much time on your hands.

I don't know why I haven't won the lottery with 25 years of luck
I did say I do have some automation. I have an ATU, a separate heater and thermostat, a calcium reactor (no controller on it), programmable pumps and my Radions are programmable. I don't own a computer to monitor my water every second of the day etc however.

 

[Specfishin]

I have no idea how my tanks survived so many years with minimal technology control.

Part timer/ bankers hours or retired? Lol. J/k