Poll: Water Changes - Automatic or Manual?

[siggy]

It has been pretty bulletproof for a long time.

The float started leaking in my mix station yesterday. The more complex the system the more potential for problems.

I was doing a daily auto water change and switch back to a weekly after being advised by the manufacture of the salt that I use, it is best to mix and use fresh mixed salt wate

I have a semi-automatic water change. I have to turn a few ball valves and a 25 gallon water change takes 10 minutes.

same hear

I don't understand this. If You change 8 gallons over a 9 hour period. (just an example) Don't You end up removing an amount of the new water also? I'm missing something & curious about this for quit sometime.

I believe the benefit is the minerals the fresh SW provides not so much the removal of actual water. Now its occurred to me that Nutrients would really need to be watched closely.
I have noticed that my water changes from the mix-sta. do not perk up the tank like fresh mixed had. I have been mixing fresh with leftover SW and seems to be close but still no Cegar. Im still going to set up a AWC on the new system, I am looking for convenience and freeing up TIME. I am now thinking I may have to experiment with salt brands.

 

[ReefGeezer]

The stability in an AWC comes from small incremental changes, not large daily changes. If you are only doing 100-200 ml at a time, and you are wasting and filling at the same time (different parts of the sump), then you should never alter any of the float switches.

It's not a single fill/drain operation I'm concerned about. It's the cumulative effect should something go out of whack @ a gallon per day of change. I'm not always around to fuss over the system. I have it set up to run for 3-4 weeks, if necessary, without any intervention except feeding. I have to be able to leave without much thought about the reef's status or needs. I'd need the AWC to be solid enough to leave it also. I've done several failure mode analysis studies. For my situation, the benefits gained just don't justify the risks.

I have a mixing/storage station set up close enough to pump new ASW to the tank. For now sucking out water, vacuuming the rocks/bottom in the process, and replacing it with new ASW works for me. I can do 10 to 40 gallons in a short period of time.

 

[WallyB]

I was doing a daily auto water change and switch back to a weekly after being advised by the manufacture of the salt that I use, it is best to mix and use fresh mixed salt water. I now change out 8 gallons once a week over a 9 hour period and my system is now improving.

I like the auto water change with my schedule.

Interesting point. I was thinking about how good is it to pre-mix salt Water for a months worth of water changes and let it sit.
Thinking about if I should have a pump to stir it, or a air stone to aerate. (In the reservoir)

I see many Stores having massive Salt Water Reservoirs, so aging pre-mix salt Water can't be really bad. (if mixed properly before it goes into reservoir). Not sure.

Why did manufacturer say to use salt water fresh. Is it one of the BIO SALTS that have Bacteria Food source in it?
I used those before and I stopped since they foam up with Scum from whatever is in the salt. A BIO SALT would rot over time, and the container would require constant cleaning.

 

[WallyB]

It's not a single fill/drain operation I'm concerned about. It's the cumulative effect should something go out of whack @ a gallon per day of change. I'm not always around to fuss over the system. I have it set up to run for 3-4 weeks, if necessary, without any intervention except feeding. I have to be able to leave without much thought about the reef's status or needs. I'd need the AWC to be solid enough to leave it also. I've done several failure mode analysis studies. For my situation, the benefits gained just don't justify the risks.

I have a mixing/storage station set up close enough to pump new ASW to the tank. For now sucking out water, vacuuming the rocks/bottom in the process, and replacing it with new ASW works for me. I can do 10 to 40 gallons in a short period of time.

Of course there is a benefit of doing Manual Water changes to sweep the Tank during Siphon. That is something that still can be done on occasion.

I have thought about Un-manned auto change that can have some degree of risk.

There is another way where you benefit from convenience, and balance accident prevention.
An AUTO WATER CHANGE (Manned) but a simple PUSH OF A BUTTON (While you watch or are around till it's done).
NO buckets, everything prepared to go, but still automatic.

Here is a protype I built a while ago. It's a DIY controller, and it communicates with Sensors and Apex to ensure things go smooth.
The pumps were originally two Maxi-jets.
The Final version was simplied to a ONE BUTTON PUSH.

Working and GEN2 Version of this right now (Where it will make Water Changes between DT, DT, and DRAIN), and no MaxiJet (using the Kamoer Irrigation Pumps)

 

[ReefGeezer]

Of course there is a benefit of doing Manual Water changes to sweep the Tank during Siphon. That is something that still can be done on occasion.

There is another way where you benefit from convenience, and balance accident prevention.
An AUTO WATER CHANGE (Manned) but a simple PUSH OF A BUTTON (While you watch or are around till it's done).
NO buckets, everything prepared to go, but still automatic.

I like that idea. I don't use a controller, but I could certainly set up something. I also thought about using the Litremeter III and just disabling the remote pumps with a switch when I wasn't around.

 

[WallyB]

I like that idea. I don't use a controller, but I could certainly set up something. I also thought about using the Litremeter III and just disabling the remote pumps with a switch when I wasn't around.

To do a manual controlled (no controller) water change you can use a power bar with individual switches for each (drain/fill) pump.

Like one of these

https://www.amazon.ca/Rosewill-RPS-200-6-Outlet-Individual-Switches/dp/B005HTQAK8

 

[Charlotte Kiely]

I've recently bought a Reefloat AWC. It has the advantage of being compact - there's only one container rather than an in and out container.

It makes life much easier - I got fed up of having a living room filled with containers every Saturday morning.

It does the change over the course of two hours so you switch it on and put your feet up! Like this...!

(ten points for guessing the film in the background!)

I have one too, best money I ever spent!

 

[reefwiser]

The problem most people will have with a AWC system is changing water is not a cure all. ONE MUST still get into the tank and remove the detritus that is in the tank on all the surfaces. So turkey baster and hose will still be needed to remove all the waste from the aquarium.Cleaning a tank is still an important task that a AWC does not accomplish. I have had systems on AWC for 25 years and still made sure the detritus was removed from each tank.

 

[jsker]

BIO SALTS that have Bacteria Food source in it?

Yes, they were saying the fresher the better. On the Manufacturer’s web site is state that the salt that I use has a 5 day shelf life.

 

[scott11106]

Interesting point. I was thinking about how good is it to pre-mix salt Water for a months worth of water changes and let it sit.
Thinking about if I should have a pump to stir it, or a air stone to aerate. (In the reservoir)

I see many Stores having massive Salt Water Reservoirs, so aging pre-mix salt Water can't be really bad. (if mixed properly before it goes into reservoir). Not sure.

Why did manufacturer say to use salt water fresh. Is it one of the BIO SALTS that have Bacteria Food source in it?
I used those before and I stopped since they foam up with Scum from whatever is in the salt. A BIO SALT would rot over time, and the container would require constant cleaning.

i have a 55g salt and fresh reservoir and i just changed salt mix as the red sea coral pro has issues after the first couple days and makes my system fluctuate too much so i just switched to reef crystals and i use the 55 gallons in about 12 days

 

[Huff747]

I have DOS do smaller daily changes but I usually still do a manual one (smaller than when I didn't do daily) on the weekend so that I can vacuum the sand a bit.

 

[Tobbe]

Use to carry 25 litre buckets for every 2 week water changes but then i started new tank i was sure this will never happen again so i use genesis renew system and love it
even if i have to use transformators etc as we use 220volt and its 110volt but its a great system one gallon out one in exactly every time.
If i want to change 200 litres etc in a hurry i have pump so i just dump it directly into sump and drain directly to the floor drain.
I really love not to carry buckets as won't get any younger

 

[vetteguy53081]

 

[KenO]

I have a 3 pump Litermeter III from Spectrapure plus a fourth standalone pump from them. Ok follow the path of water. I have just under 600 gallons between my 2 tanks which are plumbed to the same sump. I do 5 gallons a day spread out over 24 hours. Pump 1 pulls water from my SW storage tank and puts it in my sump. Pump 2 takes out the same amount of water out of the sump and puts it in my 45 gallon cube sump. Pump 3 takes 5 gallons out of the 45 cube and puts it in my 40 breeder. Pump 4 takes 5 gallons out the the 40 breeder and puts it in a 5 gallon bucket with an overflow that goes into my floor drain. The water in the 5 gallon bucket I use to change water in my coral and fish QT tanks. Each day I have 5 gallons available for the QT tanks. The 600 gallon setup is getting less than a 10%/week but my smaller tanks get a 100% turn over in about 8-9 days.

 

[Crazyfishguy]

I’m a believer in don’t needing to do water changes. Just have really good
Equipment to keep the parameters in check. Seen unbelievable tanks that have gone years with zero water changes.

 

[cracker]

@Vetteguy What Maury says is, So true ! LOL

 

[GoldeneyeRet]

I have a dos doing AWC and I will never go back to manual.

 

[Admann]

I do manual water changes in my 45, but have purchased an ATO/AWC combo for my 100 gallon tank build. Haven't started a "New Build" thread. Coming soon I hope. Planning everything for SPS from day one.

 

[Nathan Milender]

I use the python and a return pump to refill. It is not that big of a deal to do. Plus I have gravel because I like the gravel critters too much so I have to vac anyways. I have been doing about one 20% a month and it stays pretty clean.

 

[Kyl]

I am an AWC convert (Apex DOS), and it's the best thing I've done for myself in the hobby. I'm on about month four I'd guess, and the tank is doing great, I'm not forgetting / putting off doing a change "this week", a few weeks in a row, etc. Not having to heat is also another perk / one less piece of equipment to worry about.

I feel it's worked so well that I'm going to set up AWC on my frag system too when funds allow. Noise is an issue, but for now it's run a few periods per day and I only change slightly over a gallon per day.