Poll: Which ICP-OES testing is better

mahindra.dev · Apr 25, 2018

Fellow reefer, im trying to get a feel for how many of you do ICP testing and which one you prefer.
If this is about knowing the 32 elements in your reef water, then why is there a cost difference? Excuse my ignorance or grammar. Just looking for input.
I have a poll, which one to pick and how many of you do it vs. dont. You can pick multiple answers!!!

Here is what i have questions about
Triton labs 50$
ATI 40$
Marinlab 30$

Thank you for your input #reefsquad

redfishbluefish · Apr 25, 2018

You might wish to have @Randy Holmes-Farley provide comment.

mahindra.dev · Apr 25, 2018

Yes. I was reading some info on some of his previous articles but wanted to get some input and poll. I'd appreciate anything form @Randy Holmes-Farley.
Thank you @redfishbluefish

mahindra.dev · Apr 25, 2018

Bump!!!

Randy Holmes-Farley · Apr 25, 2018

I’m most familiar with Triton and one you don’t list that I wouldn’t pick. I’m pretty confident that Triton does about as good of a job as you can expect for that cost.

The other two listed above may as well, but I’ve not seen as much info from them, such as their limit of detection and standard curves. They may be just as good or even better.

I’m not a super fan of the ATI RO/DI test since it comes with no guidance of what is acceptable. It may be a perfectly accurate test, but understanding what is an issue and what is normal seems to challenge many users, and sometimes they replace filters needlessly.

mahindra.dev · Apr 25, 2018

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
I’m most familiar with Triton and one you don’t list that I wouldn’t pick. I’m pretty confident that Triton does about as good of a job as you can expect for that cost.

The other two listed above may as well, but I’ve not seen as much info from them, such as their limit of detection and standard curves. They may be just as good or even better.

I’m not a super fan of the ATI RO/DI test since it comes with no guidance of what is acceptable. It may be a perfectly accurate test, but understanding what is an issue and what is normal seems to challenge many users, and sometimes they replace filters needlessly.

Thank you @Randy Holmes-Farley. I don’t seem to get any coraline growth and some corals are thriving while I can’t seem to keep any SPS. I thought it’s good to get this test done and see what I have and dont!!!

Daniel@R2R · Apr 26, 2018

I'd be interested in seeing other people's experience with ATI. I'm not familiar with Marinlab.

mahindra.dev · Apr 26, 2018

mdbannister said:
I'd be interested in seeing other people's experience with ATI. I'm not familiar with Marinlab.

Yeah. It will be good to see some reports for comparison, if anyone can post them.

ksfulk · Apr 26, 2018

Ive been using Triton ICP for years without any issue, but I ordered an ATI test kit just to see if there was any strong difference. The ATI samples get dropped in the mail tomorrow morning, so I should have some comparision data in a week or two.

tastyfish · Apr 26, 2018

I voted Triton as it's what I use, but I didn't notice you asked which one was "best".

Actually I have no idea and TBH, I don't think many (any) of us would be able to compare the ICP-OES services with any benchmark for accuracy.

There appear to be differences in detection although again, the comparisons I've seen on blogs and Youtube have been lacking in reliable methodology. Taking samples at different times etc. One even failing to read basic instructions about rinsing 3 times, then going onto some bizarre claims about the provider not giving him enough sample tubes (he read rinse 3 times as fill 3 tubes...).

So for me, it comes down to experience, in-house expertise and critically the information, sources and suggested remedies.

This, for me is where the original provider of the mass market ICP-OES test, Triton, scores much higher than the competition.

In-house ICP-OES and a LOT of experience
Triton use in-house machines and went through a LOT of testing to get where they are now, including how to get reliable ICP-OES results from seawater. How the presence of one element affects detection of another etc.

What do you do with the results?
Triton also have a lot of advice to their customers about what the elements do (not all of them, but a lot) and critically where sources of contamination could be AND what to do about them.

Now I've not used any other providers because of my good experiences with the above, however I do see a LOT of ATI users asking for help from Triton on the results.

This suggests to me that they are somewhat lacking on this info and experiene. This may be perception, but I think it's valid observation.

So for me, I've no bad experiences of anyone offering the services, and would not draw comparisons between the accuracy of the services. But I feel far more confident and comfortable trusting Triton with the testing and interpretation of the results.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Apr 26, 2018

tastyfish said:
What do you do with the results?
Triton also have a lot of advice to their customers about what the elements do (not all of them, but a lot) and critically where sources of contamination could be AND what to do about them.

FWIW, I’d recommend that anyone seeing their directions for elements the user is unfamiliar with, check around. Some of their recommendations do not seem sensible to me. For example, dosing lithium when it is low (it has no known biological role in any organism) or dosing sulfate when it is only slightly low ( for example, it has as much sulfate as 34.5 ppt seawater already).

tastyfish · Apr 26, 2018

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
FWIW, I’d recommend that anyone seeing their directions for elements the user is unfamiliar with, check around. Some of their recommendations do not seem sensible to me. For example, dosing lithium when it is low (it has no known biological role in any organism) or dosing sulfate when it is only slightly low ( for example, it has as much sulfate as 34.5 ppt seawater already).

Ehsan Dashti has commented on Lithium in some of his talks I believe. If I recall correctly, low levels of lithium have a beneficial effect (there are some scientific research papers which comment the same, but not focused on coral), but we have no idea why or how.

Not something I would chose to dose. I believe lithium falls under the beneficial, but not important recommendations.

Don’t want to come across all pro Triton vs anyone else, but I have been struck at the number of users who have used other’s ICP tests who come onto the Triton Support forum for help

lambchops · Apr 26, 2018

I sent my test out for both Triton and ATI on the 16th. Received the Triton results today and now I'm waiting to compare.

mike werner · Apr 27, 2018

brs has a video doing exactly that.i believe they compare triton ati and aquaforest.ati has been having ALOT of trouble with registration on the site and may have a back log as a result.

tastyfish · Apr 27, 2018

mike werner said:
brs has a video doing exactly that.i believe they compare triton ati and aquaforest.ati has been having ALOT of trouble with registration on the site and may have a back log as a result.

I haven't seen a comparison from BRS on ICP tests, I believe they just covered a how to do a Triton ICP test? (I mean, how hard can it be!? lol)

The one I have seen which tried to do a comparison was the Dan's Reef one, which was the one where he was claiming they had short changed him by only providing two vials instead of three (as he misread the instructions).

Again, without running a certification lab, no one can actually compare ICP-OES accuracy.

waxhawreefer · Apr 27, 2018

I use the ATI , I know Randy doesn’t like it because of the rodi Check not being as up front as it should but triton doesn’t even do it, so by chance they find some contamination with some, I would like to know, I know ATI also has a paid return label, does triton, not sure!!

lambchops · Apr 27, 2018

waxhawreefer said:
I use the ATI , I know Randy doesn’t like it because of the rodi Check not being as up front as it should but triton doesn’t even do it, so by chance they find some contamination with some, I would like to know, I know ATI also has a paid return label, does triton, not sure!!

Triton does not have a return label.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Apr 27, 2018

Deleted

Randy Holmes-Farley · Apr 27, 2018

waxhawreefer said:
I use the ATI , I know Randy doesn’t like it because of the rodi Check not being as up front as it should but triton doesn’t even do it, so by chance they find some contamination with some, I would like to know, I know ATI also has a paid return label, does triton, not sure!!

I certainly understand the idea that a free test is better than nothing. The issue is, IMO, people will find things testing ro/di and possibly over react, replacing resins, adding additional resins, etc., when in reality, any real problem likely resides elsewhere than 0 ppm tds water.

mahindra.dev · Apr 27, 2018

The results all point towards Triton. @mike werner can you post the link of BRS investigates on the various IPC? FWIW, I am thinking on getting both Triton and ATI at the same time and see how the overall experience is and report out here like a few others @ksfulk @lambchops are doing.