Popeye in both eyes

lagatbezan · Aug 27, 2020

I have a bannerfish that has been with me for over two years. Been doing great till last week it developed Popeye On both it’s eyes. Within two days it had a hard time eating and kept on missing the food. I was able to catch it and have placed him in qt and have been treating with api erythromycin for the last 4 days with no change. Today I also added 2 tablespoon of Epsom salt (10g qt). I know it takes a while for antibiotics to start working but the fish is not eating and not active at all.
any other suggestions on treatments? I also have on hand furan2, kanaplex and metroplex but not sure if I should/can mix any of them with erythromycin.
Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.
@Jay Hemdal @Big G @Humblefish @4FordFamily
#reefsquad

Spare time · Aug 27, 2020

I don't think that is the right medicine. I think melafix or kanaplex would be better. I don't think you can mix those meds with what you are already treating with but a big water change and some carbon in a filter for a little might work. You can feed kanaplex with seachem focus or dose kanaplex into the water.

I'm sure one of the experts will chime in here soon.

Jay Hemdal · Aug 28, 2020

It's rare to see bilateral exophthalmos come on suddenly like that. The three primary causes are: mechanical damage (usually one eye) supersaturation or bacterial infection. If you didn't catch or move the fish prior, then it isn't likely to be mechanical. Supersaturation usually affects all/most of the fish in the tank, and develops due to a failure / leak at the suction side of a pump, or a sump running dry. So that leaves a bacterial infection.

Epsom salts get prescribed a lot, but I can't figure out why - it is useful in FW tanks, but magnesium sulfate is the fourth most prevalent salt in mixes, so adding a bit more won't do anything for saltwater fish.

I would dose with Erythromycin (for gram positive bacteria) and Kanaplex as a broad spectrum gram negative antibiotic.

Jay

lagatbezan · Aug 28, 2020

Jay Hemdal said:
It's rare to see bilateral exophthalmos come on suddenly like that. The three primary causes are: mechanical damage (usually one eye) supersaturation or bacterial infection. If you didn't catch or move the fish prior, then it isn't likely to be mechanical. Supersaturation usually affects all/most of the fish in the tank, and develops due to a failure / leak at the suction side of a pump, or a sump running dry. So that leaves a bacterial infection.

Epsom salts get prescribed a lot, but I can't figure out why - it is useful in FW tanks, but magnesium sulfate is the fourth most prevalent salt in mixes, so adding a bit more won't do anything for saltwater fish.

I would dose with Erythromycin (for gram positive bacteria) and Kanaplex as a broad spectrum gram negative antibiotic.

Jay

Thank you so much for the reply. yeah all the other fish in the tank are not effected.
I do have kanaplex on hand. Was not sure about treating it along side with erythromycin. I will add it tonight.
I feel so bad. the fish wants to eat but keeps missing the food and gives up.

Jay Hemdal · Aug 28, 2020

Just watch your ammonia level if you dose with Erythromycin, it sometimes inhibits the nitrogen cycle, and it looks like your QT is fairly newly set-up.

Jay

lagatbezan · Aug 28, 2020

Jay Hemdal said:
Just watch your ammonia level if you dose with Erythromycin, it sometimes inhibits the nitrogen cycle, and it looks like your QT is fairly newly set-up.

Jay

thanks Jay, I have a couple of ammonia badges in there as well as a big piece of live rock that I keep in the sump on the main display tank. Also doing 50% water changes every 48 hours just to keep the water quality pristine.
today one of his eyes has a greenish color huge to it. not sure why.
do you think a 90 min bath in acriflavine will be beneficial or cause unnecessary stress on the fish?

Jay Hemdal · Aug 28, 2020

lagatbezan said:
thanks Jay, I have a couple of ammonia badges in there as well as a big piece of live rock that I keep in the sump on the main display tank. Also doing 50% water changes every 48 hours just to keep the water quality pristine.
today one of his eyes has a greenish color huge to it. not sure why.
do you think a 90 min bath in acriflavine will be beneficial or cause unnecessary stress on the fish?

I worry about the bath causing more stress. Not sure what the color change means. Antibiotics usually take 5 days to really work, so it becomes a race against the clock in some instances.

Jay

lagatbezan · Sep 2, 2020

update:
The fish is doing much better and the eyes are back to their normal size and he is able to actually catch the food and eat. Currently he is been treated with Erythromycin for 9 days (last 5 days of it has been along with Kanaplex).
The only thing is that one of his eyes has this bright green color to it. Not sure why. should I continue with the current treatment for a few more days or transfer back to display?

Jay Hemdal · Sep 2, 2020

lagatbezan said:
update:
The fish is doing much better and the eyes are back to their normal size and he is able to actually catch the food and eat. Currently he is been treated with Erythromycin for 9 days (last 5 days of it has been along with Kanaplex).
The only thing is that one of his eyes has this bright green color to it. Not sure why. should I continue with the current treatment for a few more days or transfer back to display?

What do the label instructions say for the erythromycin? My inclination would be to stop using it now and maintain water quality in the QT with no meds for a few days, just to ensure that it doesn't rebound. When you do move it back to the display, handle it very gently. As I mentioned, one common cause for this is mechanical trauma, and netting a fish up and letting it flop its head around is a prime cause.

Sorry - I have no idea what the green coloration is. I do have to tell you - I've seen hundreds of similar eye problems to this, and only rarely can they be resolved, so good job!

Jay

lagatbezan · Sep 2, 2020

Jay Hemdal said:
What do the label instructions say for the erythromycin? My inclination would be to stop using it now and maintain water quality in the QT with no meds for a few days, just to ensure that it doesn't rebound. When you do move it back to the display, handle it very gently. As I mentioned, one common cause for this is mechanical trauma, and netting a fish up and letting it flop its head around is a prime cause.

Sorry - I have no idea what the green coloration is. I do have to tell you - I've seen hundreds of similar eye problems to this, and only rarely can they be resolved, so good job!

Jay

Thanks Jay. I really appreciate all your help and advice.
the directions for the erythromycin says to treat for 4 days and that treatment can be repeated if needed.
yeah I’m going to be very gentle with him when it’s time to transfer back to display. I always use a species container and no nets. Not sure why he got pop eye. He was happily and actively living in my 300g.
here are the after pictures. Do you see what I mean with the green eye?

Jay Hemdal · Sep 2, 2020

Yep - they’re green alright! No idea what that is....
Looks like a schooling bannerfish, (diphreutes? I cant spell that) not an acuminatus, much more peaceful if it is.
Jay

lagatbezan · Sep 2, 2020

Jay Hemdal said:
Yep - they’re green alright! No idea what that is....
Looks like a schooling bannerfish, (diphreutes? I cant spell that) not an acuminatus, much more peaceful if it is.
Jay

I got him from divers den live aquaria and they labeled it as acuminatus. Now that you mentioned it and I looked closer, you are right looks like Diphreutes. He is really peaceful in the tank and gets along with everyone. My new concern is going to be when I add him back to the display from all the current tangs and angels. Hopefully they remember him and leave him alone and not give him a welcome back beating lol.
I’m going to treat him for another couple of days and hopefully the green color goes away. Either way back to the display he will go hopefully by the weekend.

vetteguy53081 · Sep 2, 2020

It is generally associated with bacterial exposure which reverts back to good water quality. If youre going to treat. . . either change water OR assure the parameters are good. Pop eye is an eye infection and If it is bad then the fish will need medication in a cycled QT. If it is only slightly popped and/or cloudy then you can build up the fishs' immune system to help the fish fight the infection itself by adding a rotation of vitamins and garlic extract to their food and again, be sure that the water quality is very good.
Melafix is also goof for both eye issues as well as bacterial.

RyanFish · Sep 3, 2020

For me kanamycin has worked to treat bilateral pop eye.
To me this fish has had the back part of his left eye damaged by a coral or another fish. That damage may have allowed the drug to enter his eye and turn it a green color. Ive seen fish that have had cuts or eye damage treated with methylene blue and those areas stay blue.

schuby · Sep 3, 2020

I just treated my Powder Blue with Kanaplex and Focus on his daily Nori. I was unable to catch him in DT with a fish trap (2 weeks). I dipped his Nori in the water-mixed medication for 11 days. Last night, the day after stopping, the bubbles in his problem eye were gone and the popeye was much reduced. I'm crossing my fingers that the treatment worked. I was a bit surprised as there was no noticeable change during the whole treatment period.

lagatbezan · Sep 3, 2020

@RyanFish Thanks for the reply. His left eye was in worst shape and the bulge was a lot bigger. What you mentioned about the color is interesting and seems plausible and makes sense. do you know if its permanent or will it go away once I take him out of the medicated qt?

[/QUOTE]

schuby said:
I just treated my Powder Blue with Kanaplex and Focus on his daily Nori. I was unable to catch him in DT with a fish trap (2 weeks). I dipped his Nori in the water-mixed medication for 11 days. Last night, the day after stopping, the bubbles in his problem eye were gone and the popeye was much reduced. I'm crossing my fingers that the treatment worked. I was a bit surprised as there was no noticeable change during the whole treatment period.

Thats great! always a great feeling when things work out. Are you done treating with the antibiotics or are you going to carry through a few more rounds just to make sure its fully healed?

schuby · Sep 3, 2020

I'm going to wait and observe for now.

lagatbezan · Sep 8, 2020

So I’m happy to report that he has made a full recovery and has returned back into the display. The green coloration on the one eye has gone away as well.
thanks for all the help.
Side note: Right before being transferred to the display he decided he no longer wants to be a fish and wants to be a bird so he can fly so he took a 10’ plunge out of the bucket as soon as I opened the top and flew across the room and Smacked into the wall! Craziest thing I have ever seen. He now knows he can't fly...I hope lol.... aggressive little guy! I’m terrified of him now lol.

brianw6723 · Apr 21, 2023

lagatbezan said:
I have a bannerfish that has been with me for over two years. Been doing great till last week it developed Popeye On both it’s eyes. Within two days it had a hard time eating and kept on missing the food. I was able to catch it and have placed him in qt and have been treating with api erythromycin for the last 4 days with no change. Today I also added 2 tablespoon of Epsom salt (10g qt). I know it takes a while for antibiotics to start working but the fish is not eating and not active at all.
any other suggestions on treatments? I also have on hand furan2, kanaplex and metroplex but not sure if I should/can mix any of them with erythromycin.
Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.
@Jay Hemdal @Big G @Humblefish @4FordFamily
#reefsquad

try a opened clam, my buttlerflyfish is going thru the same issues and can't eat from the water column but will go to town on a open clam.