Possible Aluminum poisoning?

dkevink · Dec 9, 2019

I have been having die off issues in my tanks for years with no clue what was causing it. Finally ran some ICP tests and to my surprise Aluminum was really high. The aluminum levels seemed to be proportional to the amount of marine pure in my systems. I have 3 tanks.

The first is a 75 with 3 blocks of marine pure. One cut in half. All crumbing. The aluminum was at .457 ppm. I do a 30-35% water change once a month, 30 gallon brute can. Don’t run GFO in any of my tanks. This tank was crashing. Corals dying and bailing out for no reason I could home test for.

The second tank is a 90 gallon cube. I had 1 block of marine pure in it. Aluminum on ICP was .163 ppm. Coral alive not growing.

The third was my 40 frag tank. 1block of marine pure and a gallon of marine pure balls or so. Aluminum was .259 ppm. I lost all my acans and others were stressed, and some dead/dying.

Does anyone know the toxicity levels of aluminum in a reef tank? I keep my alk around 8.5-9.

I have removed all the Marine pure and did a 50% water change immediately after test results in all tanks. I added GFO a week ago. Going to do another 50% this week. I ordered new ICP test kits and am going to retest in a few weeks.

My magnesium consumption in my tanks is crazy. I dose 100 ml a week at least and have trouble keeping it close to 1300. Is the aluminum reacting with the Magnesium? My salt mix is low in magnesium and I add 200 ml when I mix a 30 gallon can.

Does a refugium use a lot of magnesium? Maybe that is where the magnesium is going.

If this is aluminum poisoning need to get the word out to anyone using marine pure. Maybe just those not using GFO are adversely effected. Not sure. Thanks

ScottB · Dec 9, 2019

I am very sorry to hear about your coral casualties. Good on you for getting proactive with the ICP. Smart move. I am now watching this thread so I hope you continue to report your findings.

I am interested because I run 6 blocks total across two systems composing 400 gallons. Some of it is 4 years old now. Beyond some zoa, I don't keep softies. Mostly just sticks and I have had no significant issues (beyond the occasional bonehead move).

I am clearly a fan of MP block, but I've also read dozens of threads suspecting MP block of leaching Al. Several posters deploying at least some scientific method that was fairly convincing. To my frustration though, some came to "Yes" it was the MP block and others "No". Heavy sigh.

What salt do you use?
What GFO brand did you begin?

Your Mg consumption issue is kinda weird. I had that once, only to FINALLY figure out that my Red Sea test kit was expired. My reading of 1180 turned out to be 1580 with a new kit. Maybe get a confirm on that from LFS?

Lastly, IIRC Iodine should be ~.06 I think? Our salts SHOULD cover that number, but when my duncan looks grumpy I dose a tiny bit of lugol's and it perks right up. (Admission: I don't test for I; I just look at the duncan.)

Keep grinding and posting!

Silent · Dec 9, 2019

ICP test show mag no higher than 1292.

dkevink · Dec 9, 2019

I use Omega sea premium reef salt. I have tested it at home and it runs high on ALK, and calcium. Low on magnesium around 1200, so I add some magnesium when I mix it. I get it on sale Black Friday sales at aquarium Adventure here, so I keep using it.

I have been supplementing iodine and potassium since I ran my first ICP Back on 3/22/19. I have read that a skimmer removes some iodine I think. I didn’t realize that aluminum was a toxin until I started loosing corals again and researched it here on reef2reef.

I will attach the ICP I ran on each tank back on 3/22/19. 75 gallon tank still high on Aluminum at .262.

ICP on my 90 cube on 3/22/19. Aluminum almost the same at .133 ppm.

When they look bad I start to do water changes. Not sure what else I could do at the time. I usually did monthly 30 gallon water changes.

I just bought the standard BRS bulk GFO. Mixed it with carbon, put it in high flow area in media bag.

I also dose some cheato grow since my first ICP test. Cheato was dying. My fault, running lights 24/7.

Yes I am a data nerd. Engineer, love the numbers and data. Part of what I like about the hobby. Appears my water change schedule wasn’t keeping up with the leaching. Some Corals and fish would get sick and die. No clue why. Frustrating. I hope the aluminum is what is causing it.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Dec 9, 2019

I've never tested on fish, but some corals respond negatively to levels not much higher than yours (0.5 ppm). That said, not all aluminum is identical and some forms may have different toxicity (particulate vs dissolved, for example).:

Chemistry And The Aquarium: Aluminum In The Reef Aquarium

In this article I will give some details of aluminum in natural seawater, and will discuss the sparse literature on the toxicity of aluminum ions to marine organisms.

web.archive.org

Earl Karl · Dec 9, 2019

I would definitely raise Potassium. My acros starts to peel off under 360 ppm. I keep it at 400 ppm.

dkevink · Dec 9, 2019

Any ideas how long it takes GFO to remove Aluminum? Retest in a month sound like a good plan? I just finished removing marine pure balls this weekend from frag tank. I had to get rubble and more sponge media for frag tank. No rock in tank.

I removed Marine Pure blocks during thanksgiving right after I got last ICP test. I added GFO when I got it after Black Friday. Thanks BRS.

Any ideas on doing my n=1 experiment? I have starting tests values with marine pure, just retest and see what happens? Corals already looking better.

Earl Karl · Dec 9, 2019

dkevink said:
Any ideas how long it takes GFO to remove Aluminum? Retest in a month sound like a good plan? I just finished removing marine pure balls this weekend from frag tank. I had to get rubble and more sponge media for frag tank. No rock in tank.

I removed Marine Pure blocks during thanksgiving right after I got last ICP test. I added GFO when I got it after Black Friday. Thanks BRS.

Any ideas on doing my n=1 experiment? I have starting tests values with marine pure, just retest and see what happens? Corals already looking better.

I would do a WC to get rid of Al asap. Not something I want in my tank for any more time.

dkevink · Jan 20, 2020

An update to my thread. I retested 2 of my tanks over Christmas. 1 month after removing marine pure. My first tank is a 75 where aluminum was at .457 ppm. I was loosing coral and fish before testing. New test results below.

I did 2 approximately 30 gallon water changes since the first test where I got .457 ppm reading. Aluminum levels have dropped to .141 ppm or 31% of original levels. Math prediction should be around 39% assuming around 80 gallons of water volume. I was running GFO also. Doing the math it looks like the Aluminum levels are dropping in proportion with the dilution due to water changes. My salt must have really high calcium levels.

The second tank is a 90 cube. I thought I had removed all the marine pure. A day before I sent test in, I found a second block of marine pure hiding in with the return pump. Sump in three sections, only 2 doors. Can’t see the return area. The level before removing marine pure was .163. I did two 30 gallon water changes and the level dropped only to .116 ppm, about a 30% drop. My guess on water volume is 90 gallons. Big overflow area in back of tank plus sand and rock. Math prediction with dilution due to water changes is 45% of original reading. I measured 70% of original. Test below:

Sps growing in this tank used some of the Calcium. I never add calcium. Always high, just add alk.

I have done one more water change since Christmas. Going to do bi-monthly water changes until the level drops. Any ideas on what is a safe level of aluminum?

My n=1 show a strong correlation between marine pure breakdown and high aluminum levels. My marine pure was a couple years old and starting to crumple a little. I had some corals and fish dying for no apparent reason. Fish and corals are doing very well since removing marine pure. Hoping this will solve my problem. Just frustrating as heck to think you are doing something helpful for your tank and it appears to be harming it.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jan 20, 2020

Thank you for the very detailed and useful update!

ScottB · Jan 20, 2020

Thanks for sharing this detail and analysis.
Are you also in on another thread about MP block and aluminum? I know I shared my numbers in another thread that was a catalyst for me sending out an ICP.

As mentioned up top, I run SIX of the large blocks (8X8X4) across two systems that add to 400g. They are aged 2-4 years each and are holding up very well (in terms of not crumbling). I had never sought an ICP test as I haven't been killing corals systematically for several years. But given the two high aluminum threads in quick succession, I thought I would check.

In short, my Al levels are above Fiji, but comparable to FL and did not get flagged as elevated. I don't use GFO on the frag system, and only a bit on my display. I do WC about 15% biweekly.

dkevink · Feb 11, 2021

Update on this thread, or maybe possible explanation of why some people have issues with ceramic blocks and others don’t. I tested and found my ph was 7.6 or less in my tanks. High co2 in house. HVAC Contractor never hooked up fresh air intake on furnace. Since I removed the marine pure aluminum levels have went to almost zero. Livestock and corals stopped dying.

Since I added a fresh air intake into basement, ph levels have went up to around 8.2 to 8.3. Never had coralline before I added fresh air intake. It would start to grow then disappear. Blamed it on the Asteria starfish. Now I have coralline growing on everything.

Randy is the expert, could low ph dissolve or help leach aluminum from the ceramic media? Just a thought.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Feb 11, 2021

dkevink said:
could low ph dissolve or help leach aluminum from the ceramic media? Just a thought.

It might. The solubility of aluminum in seawater is very complicated with lots of different chemical species at different pH.

Alaskagrownreef · Feb 2, 2023

Having issues with new frag tank as well. Used two 8x8x4 marine pure blocks. Let tank stabilize. Added coral large colonies, had no polyp extension immediately ran back to back ICP Tests aluminum showing 330 ug/l and 350ug/l so .35ppm. Massive filtration for this system 2x volume of sump compared to 50gal low boy frag. Running bare bottom hence the ceramic media. Red Sea filter roller 1200, algae tuff scruber with large tuff algae growing. Unsure of polyp extension issue as coral is newly added. Do have some small frags that have stabilized, also issues with no extension. Not in chalices at night, tentacles out. Sorry I write reports for a living so this might be robotic to read. Will use metasorb and poly and report findings. Will keep ceramic media, maybe run test then run same meta and poly again and remove ceramic and retest. Need to know here for the long haul. Thanks.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Feb 2, 2023

Alaskagrownreef said:
Having issues with new frag tank as well. Used two 8x8x4 marine pure blocks. Let tank stabilize. Added coral large colonies, had no polyp extension immediately ran back to back ICP Tests aluminum showing 330 ug/l and 350ug/l so .35ppm. Massive filtration for this system 2x volume of sump compared to 50gal low boy frag. Running bare bottom hence the ceramic media. Red Sea filter roller 1200, algae tuff scruber with large tuff algae growing. Unsure of polyp extension issue as coral is newly added. Do have some small frags that have stabilized, also issues with no extension. Not in chalices at night, tentacles out. Sorry I write reports for a living so this might be robotic to read. Will use metasorb and poly and report findings. Will keep ceramic media, maybe run test then run same meta and poly again and remove ceramic and retest. Need to know here for the long haul. Thanks.

Let us know what you find. I do not know how effective metal binding polymers are at binding aluminum from seawater.