Possible bakery Flour effects on Reef tank

[Acrocrazy725]

I am currently running two tanks one at home and one at work.
I own a bakery and my tank is located in my office downstairs. 125 with a canopy. I used to have a 29 biocube that I had for 10 plus years. When I moved it into bakery is when I started having problems.
I broke it down about 8 months ago and converted everything I could move into my 125. So my 125 is only 8 months old. I keep getting this slim forming in sump it used to be orange now it seems to be more white. I have down several triton tests only thing high was silicates. Which I got down. I upgraded a 3 stage rodi to a six stage. Thinking maybe it was my RO water. I have cleaned RO barrel. I have approx 100 rock 50 lbs of fugi and 50 purple Carib sea life rock. Running a new skimmer as well with a lot of flow.
IT is not new tank syndrome. I have shown pictures and taken water to friends at OSA and other local fish store both of whom have business maintaining fish tanks. They are both stumped. The only conclusion they came to is the flour in the air. I think I have by process of elimination ruled everything else out. My wife is a cell molecular biologist, and I am kicking myself for not have her run a test at lab sooner. But she doesn’t know long term effect of flour in a reef tank. As of right now my fish are all fine two tanks two clowns, male melanarous cleaner and leopard wrasse and three anthesis. The leopard lives in one of two Tupperware containers of sand in bottom of tank since tank is bare bottom. I haven’t been willing to put any corals in till I have 100% figured this thing out.
as long as I run my felt socks it seems to have no effect out side of occasional string algae. When I put a mesh sock which has bigger holes this slim seems to build up around sock. that is what picture is of that is one day. Funny sometimes my socks will last a week sometimes I have to change them everyday for a week then it’s good again.
I am wondering what is long term effect of this. also if a heap air filter in my office would help. I have an O2 scrubber that I hooked up yesterday. Because there is a couple of sponges that air has to pass through before it goes into skimmer and I thought that might help. Or maybe a homemade filter for intake.
Thank you

 

[Larry L]

Maybe yeast spores in the air.

 

[Flippers4pups]

The wheat and yeast would be a carbon source, thus the "slimy stuff" would be bacterial.

 

[Dana Riddle]

I deliberately feed yeast to my tank with no problems.

 

[Acrocrazy725]

Glad to hear that you have no ill effects from yeast and you actually add it.
spores are possible, I guess. But the yeast we use is not fine particles. It is live yeast almost like clay and the other is more of a salt consistency. bread flour is very fine and when the mixer starts mixing water and yeast in it does create a bit of flour dust. I know flour is definitely in air.
my tank is downstairs in basement so it is not in same room.
if it is bacterial then a string UV wouldn’t help .........right???

 

[Dana Riddle]

Glad to hear that you have no ill effects from yeast and you actually add it.
spores are possible, I guess. But the yeast we use is not fine particles. It is live yeast almost like clay and the other is more of a salt consistency. bread flour is very fine and when the mixer starts mixing water and yeast in it does create a bit of flour dust. I know flour is definitely in air.
my tank is downstairs in basement so it is not in same room.
if it is bacterial then a string UV wouldn’t help .........right???

I make a mix of various foods (krill, yeast, ReefRoids, vitamins, various frozen foods) and feed the tank daily so I don't think that is the problem. I know of one 'slime' issue that was caused by 'stuff' released during manufacture of electronic components (it was reef tank in an office of a LED company.)

 

[Acrocrazy725]

I make a mix of various foods (krill, yeast, ReefRoids, vitamins, various frozen foods) and feed the tank daily so I don't think that is the problem. I know of one 'slime' issue that was caused by 'stuff' released during manufacture of electronic components (it was reef tank in an office of a LED company.)

What is best way to identify. Triton was no use because this seem to be a bacteria. I could have my wife run it through a mass spec but I don’t know if I’ll be able to understand/interpret results,
what did this person with tank in led company Ultimately do.??
So you don’t think flour would be an issue ??

 

[Dan_P]

I am currently running two tanks one at home and one at work.
I own a bakery and my tank is located in my office downstairs. 125 with a canopy. I used to have a 29 biocube that I had for 10 plus years. When I moved it into bakery is when I started having problems.
I broke it down about 8 months ago and converted everything I could move into my 125. So my 125 is only 8 months old. I keep getting this slim forming in sump it used to be orange now it seems to be more white. I have down several triton tests only thing high was silicates. Which I got down. I upgraded a 3 stage rodi to a six stage. Thinking maybe it was my RO water. I have cleaned RO barrel. I have approx 100 rock 50 lbs of fugi and 50 purple Carib sea life rock. Running a new skimmer as well with a lot of flow.
IT is not new tank syndrome. I have shown pictures and taken water to friends at OSA and other local fish store both of whom have business maintaining fish tanks. They are both stumped. The only conclusion they came to is the flour in the air. I think I have by process of elimination ruled everything else out. My wife is a cell molecular biologist, and I am kicking myself for not have her run a test at lab sooner. But she doesn’t know long term effect of flour in a reef tank. As of right now my fish are all fine two tanks two clowns, male melanarous cleaner and leopard wrasse and three anthesis. The leopard lives in one of two Tupperware containers of sand in bottom of tank since tank is bare bottom. I haven’t been willing to put any corals in till I have 100% figured this thing out.
as long as I run my felt socks it seems to have no effect out side of occasional string algae. When I put a mesh sock which has bigger holes this slim seems to build up around sock. that is what picture is of that is one day. Funny sometimes my socks will last a week sometimes I have to change them everyday for a week then it’s good again.
I am wondering what is long term effect of this. also if a heap air filter in my office would help. I have an O2 scrubber that I hooked up yesterday. Because there is a couple of sponges that air has to pass through before it goes into skimmer and I thought that might help. Or maybe a homemade filter for intake.
Thank you

The slime is forming outside the sock then?

This looks like a bacterial slime. View it with a microscope.

If the slime was bacteria, I would assume you have no nitrates in your system because of the apparent carbon dosing.

I doubt their is enough flour in the air to be growing this much bacteria. Is their sugar dust in the air?

The presence of colored orange slime is curious because bacteria usually do not make pigments. I would expect that from a photosynthetic organism.

 

[Acrocrazy725]

The slime is forming outside the sock then?

This looks like a bacterial slime. View it with a microscope.

If the slime was bacteria, I would assume you have no nitrates in your system because of the apparent carbon dosing.

I doubt their is enough flour in the air to be growing this much bacteria. Is their sugar dust in the air?

The presence of colored orange slime is curious because bacteria usually do not make pigments. I would expect that from a photosynthetic organism.

It is forming outside the sock in the chamber where there is little to no flow and only when I use a mesh sock which I only used because my 24
Felt socks where being cleaned at home. If I had felt socks I would be changing the two every day for a week. That’s two a day. They would have a skimly film on them. Then it would go away and I would get a full week out of both socks and it would be normal dirty color. Also another odd thing my skimmer bubbles through the tiny holes on top to form a brownish slim on the out side of the cup. When it dries out it is hard. There is a slight film on the top of The water in the skimmer chamber and refugium. but it is not as bad in sump since I added nano power heads, one in each.
there is sugar in the bakery but in this bakery we primarily do breads and decorate cakes. We mix and bake cakes in our other bakery. Most of the mixing is all done at other bakery. Except bread, which we don’t add sugar to.
It’s an odd problem and I do appreciate your input

 

[Acrocrazy725]

The slime is forming outside the sock then?

This looks like a bacterial slime. View it with a microscope.

If the slime was bacteria, I would assume you have no nitrates in your system because of the apparent carbon dosing.

I doubt their is enough flour in the air to be growing this much bacteria. Is their sugar dust in the air?

The presence of colored orange slime is curious because bacteria usually do not make pigments. I would expect that from a photosynthetic organism.

Also,

you are correct about pigments coming from photosynthesis because in my refugium I used to have Cheetos with an led light and that’s when it was orange in color. I had bought some different algae’s from algae barn besides Cheetos I bought a green leafy and red oolong which died 5 months ago. I turned off light and took out any remaining algae. At the time I thought the slime was from the organic material breaking down.

 

[Dan_P]

Also,

you are correct about pigments coming from photosynthesis because in my refugium I used to have Cheetos with an led light and that’s when it was orange in color. I had bought some different algae’s from algae barn besides Cheetos I bought a green leafy and red oolong which died 5 months ago. I turned off light and took out any remaining algae. At the time I thought the slime was from the organic material breaking down.

The location of the slime is interesting, right outside the sock. If it were confined to this area I would suspect that the sock is collecting, probably building up something and acting as an aerobic digester. I was thinking that flour dosed to an aquarium would not cause a bacterial bloom, but small amounts of accumulating over time might be enough to create your situation. It is like having a localized cyanobacteria bloom, except you have an aerobic heterotrophic bacteria bloom. Get rid of the sock to see if the slime disappears.

 

[Acrocrazy725]

The location of the slime is interesting, right outside the sock. If it were confined to this area I would suspect that the sock is collecting, probably building up something and acting as an aerobic digester. I was thinking that flour dosed to an aquarium would not cause a bacterial bloom, but small amounts of accumulating over time might be enough to create your situation. It is like having a localized cyanobacteria bloom, except you have an aerobic heterotrophic bacteria bloom. Get rid of the sock to see if the slime disappears.

I will do it Saturday, tomorrow is my day off. I will also post a picture of sump and of display.
I just did 20% water change, I usually do 15 % every other week. I heard there are certain bacteria that actually feeds better off of water changes do you think this could be one of those situations.???

thank you

 

[Dan_P]

I will do it Saturday, tomorrow is my day off. I will also post a picture of sump and of display.
I just did 20% water change, I usually do 15 % every other week. I heard there are certain bacteria that actually feeds better off of water changes do you think this could be one of those situations.???

thank you

Full disclosure. I am not an advocate of the narrative “water changes cause X”.

For the current investigation, I would have preferred to make no more than one change at a time, but such is life. Hopefully, with the sock removed, the growth will disappear. Do you remove the slime along with the sock?

 

[Acrocrazy725]

Full disclosure. I am not an advocate of the narrative “water changes cause X”.

For the current investigation, I would have preferred to make no more than one change at a time, but such is life. Hopefully, with the sock removed, the growth will disappear. Do you remove the slime along with the sock?

I did it (water change) a couple days before this appeared. I agree completely one thing at a time that’s why I tried to keep everything the same as I have been doing.
When it is in sump I can pull out with a net. The chamber where socks are it is tough to get a net in there. when I use felt socks it is inside the socks and they fill up in a day. It only gets through a mesh sock. When I took out sock it disperses quickly it is not as thick as it appears in photo.

 

[jccaclimber]

I also think putting it under a microscope would be valuable.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

It wouldn’t surprise me if a steady addition of flour particulates might spur filter feeders and/or bacteria.

 

[Acrocrazy725]

It wouldn’t surprise me if a steady addition of flour particulates might spur filter feeders and/or bacteria.

S
Took these this morning the clean sock where both added end of day Thursday. As you can see they are full. And nothing in that chamber like with the earlier photo of mesh socks. My skimmer cup filled and shut skimmer off. Which lowered flow in sump and as you can see the slime on top of water. since I turned skimmer back on it has filled up and I had to empty it.
I enclosed picture of tank just for reference but pictures of rocks show a bit of stringy stuff on rocks which I believe is caused from same issue.
Dan suggested I remove socks see if it still builds up so I went ahead and did that.
I am going to have wife analyze slime hopefully on Monday. So at least I will have an idea of what we are dealing with.
thank you everyone and I will keep you posted on results.

 

[Acrocrazy725]

It wouldn’t surprise me if a steady addition of flour particulates might spur filter feeders and/or bacteria.

Thank you for your response,

Still battling!!!

as an update ;
wife did red blood agar it hemolyzed the blood and grew mold. We isolated a sample in a plain TSA agar and 7 different colonies grew including mold, at room temp two days. A lot of white creamy shiny elevated colonies, very low colonies with filaments.

We have access now to micro laboratory which agar should she isolate bacteria?

What i have done since last post:
Complete deep cleaning of tank rocks taken out and scrubbed. Good for a month started seeing it creeping back. Installed a 57 watt UV aqua sterilizer, helped for a time ...... It started creeping back. Removed marine pure block dosed Nitrates and phosphates for a month still maintaining good levels phosphate at .04, nit at around 2-4 all other levels normal. Also ran a full treatment of DinoX helped a little but came right back. Corals all dead except cloves and Setosa (which is on it way out.) Fish all fine, yellow Tang had bacterial infection, treated and he has been fine for two months.

Really determined to isolate what it is that is causing this. Am resolved to the fact that might not be able to fix, but am determined to definately determine what is causing this?

Thanks

 

[WVNed]

salty sourdough

 

[terraincognita]

Is this the only tank this has ever happened with?

possibly if you are sticking your hands in the tank every without thoroughly thoroughly scrubbing them, small thinly particles of flour/yeast could be on your arms or hands.

Even on clothing that may touch the water.

Interesting phenomenon.

sorry for the headache :-(