Possible Cyano Caused by AcroPower?

[sixty_reefer]

His po4 is bottoming allowing carbon source to build instead of bind, creating the Dino outbreak. just a theory tho.

It would the only thing that would make sense to me also, it will be hard to know as phosphates not been tested after the addition of aminos, we also do not know what else is in the product that may influence the available nutrients.

 

[Steve2020]

His po4 is bottoming allowing carbon source to build instead of bind, creating the Dino outbreak. just a theory tho.

Really? So let me understand this correctly. I have been carbon dosing for about 6 to 8 months and NEVER had a Cyano, Dino or algae outbreak. Tank is extremely clean. A few weeks ago I dose AcroPower and get a little Cyano and this is because carbon dosing is the cause? Understand its just your theory but this theory makes no sense to me. Could you please elaborate on why you believe carbon dosing all of a sudden is the cause and not the addition of AcroPower especially when carbon dosing NEVER caused an issue until I dosed AcroPower.

 

[Steve2020]

It would the only thing that would make sense to me also, it will be hard to know as phosphates not been tested after the addition of aminos, we also do not know what else is in the product that may influence the available nutrients.

Just did a little research on this site and others and the consensus is that Amino's do not increase or decrease PO4. It may increase NO3 slightly if any at all. Not my opinion but just what I have read. If you don't mind could you send me a reference study that shows Amino's affecting phosphates so I can better understand this?
Thank you.

 

[LeftyReefer]

I dose acropower 24/7 via doser. no cyano here.

 

[sixty_reefer]

Just did a little research on this site and others and the consensus is that Amino's do not increase or decrease PO4. It may increase NO3 slightly if any at all. Not my opinion but just what I have read. If you don't mind could you send me a reference study that shows Amino's affecting phosphates so I can better understand this?
Thank you.

We can’t verify as you mentioned earlier you don’t tend to test the tank after dosing, the product that as you mentioned will become a nitrogen source for the system that can be utilised by many organisms including coral and bacteria.
If you were to research on the method that you are using right now (carbon dosing) you would understand that the way that it works is by heterotrophic bacteria assimilating nutrients, once you understand this process you can research how heterotrophic bacteria can become limited in growth you may find from that research that they can be limited in the availability of organic carbon, nitrogen and phosphorus.
if one of the three nutrients becomes limited in your system they won’t be able to carry on assimilating nutrients.
If they not able to carry on the assimilation process it will mean that one or two of the nutrients will become more available.

here you may find some basic information on limitations that you research may align with

Understanding nutrient limitations

This article is the way I see nutrient limitations that impact many aquariums in the hobby, understanding limitations could be helpful for better residual management

www.reef2reef.com

Now that we spoke a little on assimilation and limitations you may want to research how Cyanobacteria gets his energy from, you research may show you that Cyanobacteria needs organic carbon and phosphorus in the water column they don’t require a nitrogen source as they get the nitrogen they need from atmospheric nitrogen.

if you were to study limitations in nutrients you could conclude that zero phosphates and zero nitrates (just one needed to create a limitation) will In affect create a abundance in organic carbon this is the point where I believe Cyanobacteria and dinoflagellates take over as they’re main food source becomes available in enough numbers for them to take over.
they will take over mainly because the limitation made the heterotrophic bacteria that is responsible to limit organic carbon dormant.
You will also see many experienced aquarists recommending the increase of the limitations in a way to outcompete Cyanobacteria or dinoflagellates (depending if heterotrophic or autotrophic) to awake the bacteria and reduce the availability of organic carbon, reducing the availability of carbon utilising bacteria will remove the main source of energy from the invasive species.

in conclusion there is no evidence that the increase in nitrogen caused your phosphates to go down, it could of been your carbon source also, the phosphates are just on the threshold to become limited and a error in testing could also exist in this low numbers.
I would expect you to just take my word for it although most of what I mentioned to you could easily be checked against information online.

edit:
in addition we don’t know the full content of the product, it has been shown before by respected reefers on here that some products contain organic carbon in addition of other contents, we don’t know the full content of the product to be able to determine if they could cause a nutrient limitation or abundance

 

[Steve2020]

We can’t verify as you mentioned earlier you don’t tend to test the tank after dosing, the product that as you mentioned will become a nitrogen source for the system that can be utilised by many organisms including coral and bacteria.
If you were to research on the method that you are using right now (carbon dosing) you would understand that the way that it works is by heterotrophic bacteria assimilating nutrients, once you understand this process you can research how heterotrophic bacteria can become limited in growth you may find from that research that they can be limited in the availability of organic carbon, nitrogen and phosphorus.
if one of the three nutrients becomes limited in your system they won’t be able to carry on assimilating nutrients.
If they not able to carry on the assimilation process it will mean that one or two of the nutrients will become more available.

here you may find some basic information on limitations that you research may align with

Understanding nutrient limitations

This article is the way I see nutrient limitations that impact many aquariums in the hobby, understanding limitations could be helpful for better residual management

www.reef2reef.com

Now that we spoke a little on assimilation and limitations you may want to research how Cyanobacteria gets his energy from, you research may show you that Cyanobacteria needs organic carbon and phosphorus in the water column they don’t require a nitrogen source as they get the nitrogen they need from atmospheric nitrogen.

if you were to study limitations in nutrients you could conclude that zero phosphates and zero nitrates (just one needed to create a limitation) will In affect create a abundance in organic carbon this is the point where I believe Cyanobacteria and dinoflagellates take over as they’re main food source becomes available in enough numbers for them to take over.
they will take over mainly because the limitation made the heterotrophic bacteria that is responsible to limit organic carbon dormant.
You will also see many experienced aquarists recommending the increase of the limitations in a way to outcompete Cyanobacteria or dinoflagellates (depending if heterotrophic or autotrophic) to awake the bacteria and reduce the availability of organic carbon that way.

in conclusion there is no evidence that the increase in nitrogen caused your phosphates to go down, it could of been your carbon source also, the phosphates are just on the threshold to become limited and a error in testing could also exist in this low numbers.
I would expect you to just take my word for it although most of what I mentioned to you could easily be checked against information online.

edit:
in addition we don’t know the full content of the product, it has been shown before by respected reefers on here that some products contain organic carbon in addition of other contents, we don’t know the full content of the product to be able to determine if they could cause a nutrient limitation or abundance

Thanks for the info. When you say you we don't know the full content of the product, are you talking about the carbon source? If so it is a DIY mixed ratio of 500ml vinegar, 375ml 80 proof vodka and 125ml of RODI. If your talking about the AcroPower, who knows what's in it other than the person who developed it.
I do not believe carbon dosing caused the cyano because I have been dosing carbon for 6 to 8 months without ANY issues. Only when I dosed the AcroPower did the cyano appear. I stop dosing AcroPower and cyano does not come back.
After the first 2 months of carbon dosing my phosphates would drop to 0 to 0.01ppm and NO3 would stop dropping but not increase so my tank became Phosphate Dependent so I started dosing phosphate to bring it up and then NO3 would start dropping again like it should. Once I got the NO3 to where I wanted it I slowly reduced my carbon dose to a point to where NO3 and PO4 have been stable for months. NO3 at 9.6 to 10.1ppm and PO4 0.03 to 0.04ppm. Do you consider these levels too be to high or too low or acceptable?
Thank you for your previous comment.

 

[sixty_reefer]

Thanks for the info. When you say you we don't know the full content of the product, are you talking about the carbon source? If so it is a DIY mixed ratio of 500ml vinegar, 375ml 80 proof vodka and 125ml of RODI. If your talking about the AcroPower, who knows what's in it other than the person who developed it.

am referring to the content in acropower will be unknown

I do not believe carbon dosing caused the cyano because I have been dosing carbon for 6 to 8 months without ANY issues. Only when I dosed the AcroPower did the cyano appear. I stop dosing AcroPower and cyano does not come back.
After the first 2 months of carbon dosing my phosphates would drop to 0 to 0.01ppm and NO3 would stop dropping but not increase so my tank became Phosphate Dependent so I started dosing phosphate to bring it up and then NO3 would start dropping again like it should. Once I got the NO3 to where I wanted it I slowly reduced my carbon dose to a point to where NO3 and PO4 have been stable for months. NO3 at 9.6 to 10.1ppm and PO4 0.03 to 0.04ppm. Do you consider these levels too be to high or too low or acceptable?
Thank you for your previous comment.

The levels are fine and it’s expected for a system that uses carbon dosing to deplete phosphates and eventually become dependent if levels get to low.

regarding limitations and abundance of Carbon, there will be one more situation besides zero phosphates and zero nitrates that can also give enough energy for them to make a appearance, this situation will be observed as nitrates and phosphates are on the down, meaning that every time nutrients are decreasing there will be a increase in the availability of carbon. Basically a rapid drop In nutrient could cause Cyanobacteria to start to be noticeable and start competing with heterotrophic bacteria for carbon. It’s not uncommon to see Cyanobacteria in high nutrient events also.

that’s why I find your situation interesting, from we’re I stand I could only see this happening if you had a increase of organic carbon from a unknown source.

 

[Steve2020]

am referring to the content in acropower will be unknown


The levels are fine and it’s expected for a system that uses carbon dosing to deplete phosphates and eventually become dependent if levels get to low.

regarding limitations and abundance of Carbon, there will be one more situation besides zero phosphates and zero nitrates that can also give enough energy for them to make a appearance, this situation will be observed as nitrates and phosphates are on the down, meaning that every time nutrients are decreasing there will be a increase in the availability of carbon. Basically a rapid drop In nutrient could cause Cyanobacteria to start to be noticeable and start competing with heterotrophic bacteria for carbon. It’s not uncommon to see Cyanobacteria in high nutrient events also.

that’s why I find your situation interesting, from we’re I stand I could only see this happening if you had a increase of organic carbon from a unknown source.

Thanks for all the info. I find this whole thing interesting myself. I learned a lot and appreciate it I am discontinuing using AcroPower and any other Amino Acid for a while if not permanently. I believe my DIY fish food made with all fresh ingredients ( No Preservatives ) contains enough Amino's after reading about how much Amino's are in fresh seafood that I did not know about. My mix contains fresh fish, shrimp, scallops, mussels, clams, squid, oysters, octopus and frozen krill plus I added Vitachem and Selcon to the mix.

 

[sixty_reefer]

Thanks for all the info. I find this whole thing interesting myself. I learned a lot and appreciate it I am discontinuing using AcroPower and any other Amino Acid for a while if not permanently. I believe my DIY fish food made with all fresh ingredients ( No Preservatives ) contains enough Amino's after reading about how much Amino's are in fresh seafood that I did not know about. My mix contains fresh fish, shrimp, scallops, mussels, clams, squid, oysters, octopus and frozen krill plus I added Vitachem and Selcon to the mix.

That food selection should create a lot of beneficial nutrients to your system.
Regarding the acropower and other amino acids I believe I may have determined the source of organic carbon, many manufacturers will add carbohydrates into the amino mix carbohydrates can be transformed into glucose and glucose is a source of organic carbon, this will explain my previous thoughts that you could be having a source of unknown carbon. You could carry on using the product you may have add a very small dose and slowly increase it to let the system get used to the new nutrients.

 

[Steve2020]

That food selection should create a lot of beneficial nutrients to your system.
Regarding the acropower and other amino acids I believe I may have determined the source of organic carbon, many manufacturers will add carbohydrates into the amino mix carbohydrates can be transformed into glucose and glucose is a source of organic carbon, this will explain my previous thoughts that you could be having a source of unknown carbon. You could carry on using the product you may have add a very small dose and slowly increase it to let the system get used to the new nutrients.

Well that's good to know the possibility of carbs in the product.
Thanks for the info!!!