Possible fish with ick!

[Schulks]

My royal gramma has some specs showing up on his tail and i have noticed him flashing the sand bed some. I got the gramma about 10 days ago now. I've had the clowns about 3 months and the YWG a little over a month. My clowns seem to have a few specs too. I believe I have noticed them flashing but they are a couple of clowns so I'm not sure! lol
I have a yellow watchman goby and he seems completely fine but could be hard to tell if anything is on him.

I just purchased most of everything I need to treat them and am firing up the RO/DI to fill the new hospital tank.
Can anyone gather anything from the pictures or any other help would be greatly appreciated!

 

[fishski13]

Not sure exactly what it is but seeing it on the clowns looks like brooklynella

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

My royal gramma has some specs showing up on his tail and i have noticed him flashing the sand bed some. I got the gramma about 10 days ago now. I've had the clowns about 3 months and the YWG a little over a month. My clowns seem to have a few specs too. I believe I have noticed them flashing but they are a couple of clowns so I'm not sure! lol
I have a yellow watchman goby and he seems completely fine but could be hard to tell if anything is on him.

I just purchased most of everything I need to treat them and am firing up the RO/DI to fill the new hospital tank.
Can anyone gather anything from the pictures or any other help would be greatly appreciated!

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

The Gramma does appear to have ich on its caudal fin, but not all white spots are ich. What you want to do is watch the location of the spots while you are setting up the QT. If the spots stay in the same place and in the same numbers over 36 hours or so, it probably isn't ich. If the spots come and go in different locations, then it is more likely ich.

I don't see anything major on the clowns (yet). You'll need to treat all of the fish though.

You'll need some way to start up a solid nitrogen cycle in your hospital tank - bacteria in a bottle, established bacteria from your main tank, something to keep the ammonia under control. As for a treatment, I would suggest coppersafe, with a good copper test kit (not API if you can help it) and keep them in it for 30 days past the date the last spot left. Meanwhile, you'll need to leave your main tank fishless for at least 45 days.

Jay

 

[Schulks]

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

The Gramma does appear to have ich on its caudal fin, but not all white spots are ich. What you want to do is watch the location of the spots while you are setting up the QT. If the spots stay in the same place and in the same numbers over 36 hours or so, it probably isn't ich. If the spots come and go in different locations, then it is more likely ich.

I don't see anything major on the clowns (yet). You'll need to treat all of the fish though.

You'll need some way to start up a solid nitrogen cycle in your hospital tank - bacteria in a bottle, established bacteria from your main tank, something to keep the ammonia under control. As for a treatment, I would suggest coppersafe, with a good copper test kit (not API if you can help it) and keep them in it for 30 days past the date the last spot left. Meanwhile, you'll need to leave your main tank fishless for at least 45 days.

Jay

Thanks for the help Jay!

I already have copper power and the salifert copper test kit. I'm worried that the salifert test only goes up to 2. If I am at 3+ it will look like 2? I figure I will drop in half of a copper dose test and then try to replicate the first dose if it is on target.

I am certainly planning on a fallow period. I will take advantage of the time to treat all the fish for as much as I can in the hospital tank.

I purchased a big bottle of Fritz Zyme and some plastic media balls for bio-filtration. I will also start the hospital tank with tank water so the fish are less shocked/carry over my bacteria. I also got a tidal55 for the tank and it came with rocks for media but I might just try and pack some of the plastic balls in there instead so I can more easily change medicines later in the treatment. Can I just continually dose Zyme every day and do big water changes bi-weekly or so to keep good water or would it still be a rollercoaster of ammonia even with these precautions?

 

[Schulks]

Not sure exactly what it is but seeing it on the clowns looks like brooklynella

I am steering away from broolynella because Gramma seems to have it the worst and if it was brook my clowns or goby would likely be the sickest? I might have that completely wrong though.

 

[Sebastiancrab]

Whether it is Brooklynella or Ich, I suggest you also purchase some Hydroplex and do a 10 minute saltwater dip. I have had success with it killing the bugs on them. You will still need to treat with the appropriate follow up medication in your hospital tank as Jay recommended.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Thanks for the help Jay!

I already have copper power and the salifert copper test kit. I'm worried that the salifert test only goes up to 2. If I am at 3+ it will look like 2? I figure I will drop in half of a copper dose test and then try to replicate the first dose if it is on target.

I am certainly planning on a fallow period. I will take advantage of the time to treat all the fish for as much as I can in the hospital tank.

I purchased a big bottle of Fritz Zyme and some plastic media balls for bio-filtration. I will also start the hospital tank with tank water so the fish are less shocked/carry over my bacteria. I also got a tidal55 for the tank and it came with rocks for media but I might just try and pack some of the plastic balls in there instead so I can more easily change medicines later in the treatment. Can I just continually dose Zyme every day and do big water changes bi-weekly or so to keep good water or would it still be a rollercoaster of ammonia even with these precautions?

Don’t take copper power to 3 ppm. A full dose as per label is around 2.1 ppm. Some people have found 2.5 (like coppersafe) works better. Any higher and you’ll start to see toxicity issues.
I don’t know about dosing Fritzyme, I haven’t used it for many years and I think they changed their formulation.
Jay

 

[Schulks]

Don’t take copper power to 3 ppm. A full dose as per label is around 2.1 ppm. Some people have found 2.5 (like coppersafe) works better. Any higher and you’ll start to see toxicity issues.
I don’t know about dosing Fritzyme, I haven’t used it for many years and I think they changed their formulation.
Jay

Sorry, what I meant was my test kit only reads up to 2 ppm copper. I am worried that if I dose it incorrectly I will still read 2 ppm but actually be at 3 ppm.

Will I be able to tell a color difference between 2 and 2+?

It is the Salifert Copper test.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Sorry, what I meant was my test kit only reads up to 2 ppm copper. I am worried that if I dose it incorrectly I will still read 2 ppm but actually be at 3 ppm.

Will I be able to tell a color difference between 2 and 2+?

Oh, I understand. I don’t know enough about the endpoint of that test. What you do is make a 50% dilution of the sample with fresh seawater and test it. Double the results for your actual reading.
Jay

 

[Schulks]

UPDATE:

The spots on the caudal fin of Gramma got much more obvious yesterday morning and seem to now be gone. I am still seeing new spots appear on the clowns.
All fish still have an appetite.

The Royal Grammas color seems to be paling out in places like on his forehead. It is like white smudges on him but it is very faint. I don't think that is how he looked when I got him but I am not certain.

Could that be caused by Ick too?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

UPDATE:

The spots on the caudal fin of Gramma got much more obvious yesterday morning and seem to now be gone. I am still seeing new spots appear on the clowns.
All fish still have an appetite.

The Royal Grammas color seems to be paling out in places like on his forehead. It is like white smudges on him but it is very faint. I don't think that is how he looked when I got him but I am not certain.

Could that be caused by Ick too?

That sure sounds like how ich behaves early on in the infection. The Trophonts grow in size, then drop off the fish and produce daughter cells. These in turn infect the same, or new fish. Eventually, if not treated, the disease progresses and the fish get very sick and then usually die.

What you are seeing is what people see when they treat with one of those bogus ich medications - the spots all go away and they think, great, it worked! then, surprise! the spots return... they then say, oh, I must have done something wrong.

Now - "ich management" takes advantage of this lull in the infection - if you have a well established reef tank, with great environmental conditions, not too crowded with fish, a big UV sterilizer, and you siphon off the sand every morning, you can sometimes stop ich at this point....but not always.

Jay

 

[Schulks]

That sure sounds like how ich behaves early on in the infection. The Trophonts grow in size, then drop off the fish and produce daughter cells. These in turn infect the same, or new fish. Eventually, if not treated, the disease progresses and the fish get very sick and then usually die.

What you are seeing is what people see when they treat with one of those bogus ich medications - the spots all go away and they think, great, it worked! then, surprise! the spots return... they then say, oh, I must have done something wrong.

Now - "ich management" takes advantage of this lull in the infection - if you have a well established reef tank, with great environmental conditions, not too crowded with fish, a big UV sterilizer, and you siphon off the sand every morning, you can sometimes stop ich at this point....but not always.

Jay

Thanks for such long informative responses!

I have mixed up about 20 gallons of saltwater to about 2.2 ppm copper power by my calculations. I also tested it with dilluted Salifert (the range is, 0.2 - 0.5 - 1 - 2 - 4) and looks to be a solid 2 on the card.

The Copper Power bottle says to mix to 2.5 but I am thinking about stopping here to be safe unless you would advice me to go for 2.5 with this test kit.

Should I just fill the QT with pure Copper treated saltwater or would it be a good idea to do half and half and work my way to 2.5 by doing 50% water changes every few days.

The fish I will be treating are a yellow watchman goby, 2 snowflake clownfish, and a royal gramma.

This website rules!
Cory

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Thanks for such long informative responses!

I have mixed up about 20 gallons of saltwater to about 2.2 ppm copper power by my calculations. I also tested it with dilluted Salifert (the range is, 0.2 - 0.5 - 1 - 2 - 4) and looks to be a solid 2 on the card.

The Copper Power bottle says to mix to 2.5 but I am thinking about stopping here to be safe unless you would advice me to go for 2.5 with this test kit.

Should I just fill the QT with pure Copper treated saltwater or would it be a good idea to do half and half and work my way to 2.5 by doing 50% water changes every few days.

The fish I will be treating are a yellow watchman goby, 2 snowflake clownfish, and a royal gramma.

This website rules!
Cory

My preference for getting to a copper level is to not take too much time, but also to ensure you don't overshoot the mark. My favorite method is to calculate a full dose. Add half that amount to the tank and let it circulate for a few hours. Test the tank - you should be at a 50% dose. If so, then just add a second half dose and then check the next day to ensure you are at a full dose. If you are high or low at the first test, just add a corresponding adjusted dose to get to a full dose (the math is sometimes a bit tricky though).

Jay

 

[Schulks]

My preference for getting to a copper level is to not take too much time, but also to ensure you don't overshoot the mark. My favorite method is to calculate a full dose. Add half that amount to the tank and let it circulate for a few hours. Test the tank - you should be at a 50% dose. If so, then just add a second half dose and then check the next day to ensure you are at a full dose. If you are high or low at the first test, just add a corresponding adjusted dose to get to a full dose (the math is sometimes a bit tricky though).

Jay

Do you have any good resources on quarantining gobys or just quarantining in general?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

We keep our current quarantine protocol here:

Current Quarantine Protocol

2024 Quarantine Procedures Jay Hemdal David Scarborough Protozoans (Cryptocaryon/ich, Amyloodinium/velvet) and Metazoan trematodes/flukes are by far the most common parasites found on newly acquired fish. A carefully managed, proactive quarantine process can effectively eliminate these...

www.reef2reef.com

If there are updates/changes, I make them to the first page.

Jay

 

[Schulks]

My fish are going to the surface of the qt a lot.

I did about a 10 gallon water change yesterday and it is only 9.2 gallons total. I did that because my ammonia alert badge didn't look yellow enough to me.

Is it likely to be ammonia buildup? I have been raising copper and am at 1.0 could the copper just bother them so they are trying to find relief?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

My fish are going to the surface of the qt a lot.

I did about a 10 gallon water change yesterday and it is only 9.2 gallons total. I did that because my ammonia alert badge didn't look yellow enough to me.

Is it likely to be ammonia buildup? I have been raising copper and am at 1.0 could the copper just bother them so they are trying to find relief?

So you changed over 100% of the tank volume in a day? That can be done, but it can be kind of tricky to manage things so that the fish don't get stressed, as well as to manage the copper levels.

You should get to a full coppersafe or copper power dose in 24 hours.

Can you post a video of the fish "going to the surface", I'm not sure what that means.

Jay

 

[Schulks]

So you changed over 100% of the tank volume in a day? That can be done, but it can be kind of tricky to manage things so that the fish don't get stressed, as well as to manage the copper levels.

You should get to a full coppersafe or copper power dose in 24 hours.

Can you post a video of the fish "going to the surface", I'm not sure what that means.

Jay

I took out about 6 gallons put in 3 took out 3 put in 3 took out. I am mixing 20 gallons and dosing copper to that bin so water changes are easy.

The water level was pretty low during the change but I was thinking some stress is better than ammonia. I didn't realize the difficulty in tracking ammonia with copper in the water. I heard ammonia is the number 1 killer in qt and I've perhaps been overreacting some.

I'll get copper to 2.25~ today.

Here's a video of the behavior. Again I might just be overly paranoid.

 

[LeftyReefer]

Those clowns appear to be behaving normally to me.... you have an air stone going, so I doubt low O2 is an issue.

If you are adding bottled bacteria, it should be cycled within a week or so... just keep a good eye on your ammonia badge until the tank fully cycles.

I dose my QT up to 2.5 copper power right off the bat, I don't ramp up at all. I use 1.5 ml of copper power, per gallon of water for my dosing. If you are going to be QT'ing fish in the future too, I would just get the Hanna copper checker. Takes all the guessing out.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I took out about 6 gallons put in 3 took out 3 put in 3 took out. I am mixing 20 gallons and dosing copper to that bin so water changes are easy.

The water level was pretty low during the change but I was thinking some stress is better than ammonia. I didn't realize the difficulty in tracking ammonia with copper in the water. I heard ammonia is the number 1 killer in qt and I've perhaps been overreacting some.

I'll get copper to 2.25~ today.

Here's a video of the behavior. Again I might just be overly paranoid.

I don't see anything alarming in the video. If the fish are still feeding well, I wouldn't worry about them.

About 0.50 ppm of any ammonia you test in a tank that was freshly dosed with copper is from the copper itself and can be ignored.

Jay