Possible lyngbya help needed

[92Miata]

I’m surprised you’ve had luck with snails with this stuff. The pacific Mexican turbos and then the zebra turbos from the Caribbean seem to go down quick once they ingest this stuff in my tank….which makes sense because it’s extremely toxic.

There are a whole bunch of different species of marine Lyngba - that produce a couple dozen different toxins. 4 of those toxins are molluscicidal. Its a bit luck-of-the-draw with which actual species you have.

He says his snails are doing ok - so hopefully he's got one of the ones that isn't.

​

 

[Llorgon]

Yeah - this sort of bouncing around can cause all sorts of issues with the sort of organisms you want to keep, and once they get out of whack, it creates an opportunity for this sort of crud - and dry rock tanks and low surface competition let it get out of control real quick. And once it's out of control, it becomes really difficult to deal with it via nutrients/etc, because its healthier than your corals/etc.

I think this is lyngba, but if you know someone who has a microscope, or feel like spending $50 on amazon, confirmation would be good (but not 100% necessary).

I'm a little concerned looking at this with how little non-green color I see on the rock for a year and a half old tank - are the photos just deceptive? Or did the crud just overrun everything?

I had an issue with Lyngba in the current (well, pre upgrade) tank a year or so back that I had the hardest time figuring out - and it turned out that my Nyos nitrate kit was trash, and it was bottoming out the nitrates for a month or so that started it.

I think you're mostly doing the right things right now - keep the PO4/NO3 in the .1ppm/10ppm -ish range, and do as much as you can to deal with this stuff mechanically. The big issue here is the stuff can grow from broken pieces, so anything you do, you want to do in a bucket, or with a siphon close.

Wear gloves because this stuff bothers some people's skin, and continued exposure is usually how that starts.

As far as critters - mexican turbos get enormous (the zebra ones), and are bulldozers, but they're the animals I've had the best luck with for pretty much everything.

Bubble algae can be a pain - and you should remove it when you can - but it generally doesn't kill corals the way hair or lyngba can - it's not rubbing up against them irritating them all day. And fast growing corals will grow right over it.



This is really it - the goal for any sort of algae eradication is to hamstring the algae long enough that the animals you want growing are growing well, and then they'll do the work for you. Healthy coralline is chemically brutal stuff - and I'm sure you've seen healthy sps burn their way across a rock - you get that white ring around them (outside the growth ring) that's just bare rock where they've chemically killed everything.

In a tank where the corals and coralline aren't doing well (because nutrients got all messed up), hair algae will smother and kill stuff. In a tank where corals are growing well, they'll burn their way right through it.

I like to use the analogy of weeds in a garden - you can't just go in there and rob the place of all nutrients/deprive it of water/sun/etc - because you'll kill the tomatoes and cucumbers - and once you kill them, the weeds come back better than before. You need to pull and cut the weeds to hamstring their growth, and give the cucumbers and tomatoes everything they need, so they can shade out the weeds, and fill your planter with root mass. It doesn't matter how many times, or how well you kill the weeds if you don't get the other stuff to take their place. They'll just come back.

Its hard, but it's the only thing that actually works and doesn't just look like its working for a month and then swing you into some other weird problem.

You'll see big healthy reef tank with high nitrates and phosphates - and no algae - and this is because there's just no hospitable room for algae to grow, and the corals and coralline outcompete the algae for a bunch of micronutrients. When you drop dry rock in these tanks - it explodes with algae - and then very quickly gets overrun with coralline and then corals. It takes like 6 weeks for a bare piece of rock to go through that full succession - it's crazy to watch if you've never dealt with a healthy mature reef.

Ok, lots of good info here. Yes, the bouncing around of nutrients was pretty bad. That was my fault for upping one and not paying attention to the other. Since my nutrients have been low 0.1 and 0.03, the algae has been pretty easy to pull off the rocks. I have been removing algae manually every night and I have been slowly making some progress on things.

I don't know why the rocks haven't had much coraline growth. It was starting in places and then when the corals started to die, it began only growing on the glass and nothing on the rocks. I am starting to see some small patches on the rocks here and there now though.

I have a mexican turbo coming today, so I will see how it does. Maybe it will help with some of this stuff.

The rocks are a bit more green that pictures make them out to be. As I pull off the algae underneath you can see some green and sometimes a bit of coraline also patches of bubble algae... so I am hoping things are taking a turn for the better. I will try and take some pics of the rock I was removing algae from last night when the lights come on.

2 questions, what are your suggestions for getting all the algae off of my euphyllia? I have been pulling/scrubbing what I can, but it never gets it all.

Can I use chaeto to outcompete this stuff? I assume it would be hard to grow chaeto with nutrients being so low or can you dose some nutrients when refugium lights are on so the chateo gets first dibs on it?

 

[92Miata]

Ok, lots of good info here. Yes, the bouncing around of nutrients was pretty bad. That was my fault for upping one and not paying attention to the other. Since my nutrients have been low 0.1 and 0.03, the algae has been pretty easy to pull off the rocks. I have been removing algae manually every night and I have been slowly making some progress on things.

I don't know why the rocks haven't had much coraline growth. It was starting in places and then when the corals started to die, it began only growing on the glass and nothing on the rocks. I am starting to see some small patches on the rocks here and there now though.

If it looks like its growing/expanding and not getting overrun - keep up what you're doing. Just be careful with the low nutrients - too low and the coralline will stop again.

2 questions, what are your suggestions for getting all the algae off of my euphyllia? I have been pulling/scrubbing what I can, but it never gets it all.

Can I use chaeto to outcompete this stuff? I assume it would be hard to grow chaeto with nutrients being so low or can you dose some nutrients when refugium lights are on so the chateo gets first dibs on it?

Yeah - not many suggestions there. It's really just labor - keep it as clean/short as you can until you don't have to anymore.

If it's getting better - stuff is easier to pull, and you're seeing positive signs from coralline (any corals looking any better?) I wouldn't make any additional changes - just keep doing what you're doing and give it some time. Sometimes it takes a while for effects to be seen, and if you try to correct to early you overshoot.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I haven't heard of bubble scrubbing, but I'll check that out. I do have an extra pump I could make a powerfilter out of. I have an extra power head on order since it seems I need more flow with the cyano.

I have been scrubbing the rocks daily for about 3 weeks now. No improvement as of yet though.

Cool. I will have to give that a try and see if it helps.

Mostly going off of the fluxrx having no effect. I'm on day 10 right now and if I don't scrub the rocks everyday, I can see more growth so it isn't even slowing it down.

This is more of a hair algae issue and seems heavy cased. The key here will be to remove/pull as much as you can by hand, reduce white light intensity or even the hours of white lights provided.
Is this tank at or near a window?
Are you using RODI water or tap water from the faucet?
What is your phosphate and nitrate levels ?

After pulling by hand, add snails such as :
astrea
turbo grazer
cerith
nerite
trochus

Pencil urchin

8-10 carribean blue leg hermits (these are tiny)

 

[Llorgon]

This is more of a hair algae issue and seems heavy cased. The key here will be to remove/pull as much as you can by hand, reduce white light intensity or even the hours of white lights provided.
Is this tank at or near a window?
Are you using RODI water or tap water from the faucet?
What is your phosphate and nitrate levels ?

After pulling by hand, add snails such as :
astrea
turbo grazer
cerith
nerite
trochus

Pencil urchin

8-10 carribean blue leg hermits (these are tiny)

I have been pulling out around a cup full each night. Slowly making progress.

Tanks is near a window, but not one that gets direct sunlight... especially this time of year. And that hits the side of the tank which is covered in corraline.

Would only having blue lights on for a few days help?

Yes, RODI. Most recent test was on Saturday.

Again most recent test for nitrate and phosphate was 0.1 / 0.03ppm. Probably why the algae is so easy to pull off right now.

3x Astrea
1x mexican turbo
5x blue legged hermits were added to the tank today.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I have been pulling out around a cup full each night. Slowly making progress.

Tanks is near a window, but not one that gets direct sunlight... especially this time of year. And that hits the side of the tank which is covered in corraline.

Would only having blue lights on for a few days help?

Yes, RODI. Most recent test was on Saturday.

Again most recent test for nitrate and phosphate was 0.1 / 0.03ppm. Probably why the algae is so easy to pull off right now.

3x Astrea
1x mexican turbo
5x blue legged hermits were added to the tank today.

Blue light. preferably no light for about 5 days and as suspected - tank at window- The power of UV is strong and will penetrate shades, blinds- curtains.
Get a piece of black construction paper from Walmart (30'X30") and place at side of glass that faces window and you will see a huge change in a week. I can assure you , this is 90% of your algae issue (the window)

 

[Llorgon]

@92Miata best pictures I could get of the rocks. Some green underneath all the long algae. Mostly bubble algae though.

This week I really focused on getting the algae off the front top rocks. I think I'm seeing progress.

 

[Llorgon]

I did another water change yesterday and sucked out a bunch of the algae and scrubbed the rocks. I'm definitely seeing progress. One of the trochus snails is even on the rocks today!

I tried a h2o2 dip on the euphyllia frags. I put them in a bucket of tank water and then added h2o2 until I saw bubbles and left them in there for 3 minutes. This morning, most are open a bit more than before, but I didn't succeed in killing off the algae. I think I will try a stronger dip later on this week and see if that will kill the algae.

 

[Llorgon]

Tank after water change

 

[TokenReefer]

Looking good! Good job. Don't falter from the routine and you'll be over this before you know it

 

[Llorgon]

Looking good! Good job. Don't falter from the routine and you'll be over this before you know it

Thanks. It's getting harder to pull algae off the rocks. Less of the big clumps and now a bunch of smaller ones that are hard to grab. If all the snails and grabs are doing well by the end of this week I will probably order some more. I will probaby need more crabs since bubble algae is the next thing moving in.

 

[djf91]

Yep keep at it. Mine is very slowly going away too. It’s taking longer to come back after each scrub. Still coming back though within a week.

 

[TokenReefer]

It’s taking longer to come back after each scrub

Yup. And then when it finally doesn't come back you can sit back and relaxe a bit and really start enjoying your hard work it's a very satisfying feeling

 

[Llorgon]

Yup. And then when it finally doesn't come back you can sit back and relaxe a bit and really start enjoying your hard work it's a very satisfying feeling

If that day comes it will be glorious!

Last night I did a test dip of one of the euphyllia. I dipped it in h2o2 for 2 mins. Got rid of most algae, but not all so far.

Before and after

 

[Llorgon]

I'm seeing good progress on getting the algae off the rocks and it doesn't seem to be growing back as fast and not growing back in some places.

I haven't seen the turbo snail or emerald crab since the second day they where in the tank. I'm hoping they turn up soon. I've been checking every night to see if I can find them. The cerith, astrea and trochus all seem to be doing well and I see the hermits from time to time. I'll probably order some more next week.

My 2 biggest issues right now seem to getting/keeping algae off the corals and trying to get my euphyllia happy again. The one euphyllia I did the 2 min h2o2 dip on is looking good algae wise, but still hasn't opened up. I'm wondering if part of the euphyllia problem is the low or seemingly low nutrients the tank has. They were 0 and 0.03ppm) when tested on Tuesday night.

I have noticed a bit of an uptick in alk and calcium consumption so hopefully that's a sign things are turning around!

 

[vetteguy53081]

Tank after water change

Needs to be scrubbed more thoroughly but looking much better

 

[djf91]

I'm seeing good progress on getting the algae off the rocks and it doesn't seem to be growing back as fast and not growing back in some places.

I haven't seen the turbo snail or emerald crab since the second day they where in the tank. I'm hoping they turn up soon. I've been checking every night to see if I can find them. The cerith, astrea and trochus all seem to be doing well and I see the hermits from time to time. I'll probably order some more next week.

My 2 biggest issues right now seem to getting/keeping algae off the corals and trying to get my euphyllia happy again. The one euphyllia I did the 2 min h2o2 dip on is looking good algae wise, but still hasn't opened up. I'm wondering if part of the euphyllia problem is the low or seemingly low nutrients the tank has. They were 0 and 0.03ppm) when tested on Tuesday night.

I have noticed a bit of an uptick in alk and calcium consumption so hopefully that's a sign things are turning around!

From what I’ve seen the Turbos seem to have a toxicity issue with Lyngbya/ or some types hair algae. Keep scrubbing weekly and allow the corraline to take over the rock. As much of a hassle as it is, you just gotta grunt it out until it doesn’t come back. I assume there is some natural predator in the ocean that keeps the rocks clear and allows coralline to take over. A predator we don’t have in our tanks.

 

[ggNoRe]

In for support. I'm dealing with similar issues. Coincidentally mine exploded after dosing iron when I saw iron was depleted in an ICP. Pincushion urchins have been only cuc I've seen mowing this down. I have about 50 trochus, turbos, top crowns, bumble bees, etc but they don't seem to make much difference. I've also found manually pulling followed by a thorough toothbrush scrub works well. As like you when this stuff starts to cover my zoas or other corals it's very hard to do anything about. I've tried peroxide dips for the corals in dire circumstances but they do not do well from this and it usually just accelerates their death.

 

[Llorgon]

Needs to be scrubbed more thoroughly but looking much better

I'm trying! I can't remove all the rocks so it's being done in tank right now...

From what I’ve seen the Turbos seem to have a toxicity issue with Lyngbya/ or some types hair algae. Keep scrubbing weekly and allow the corraline to take over the rock. As much of a hassle as it is, you just gotta grunt it out until it doesn’t come back. I assume there is some natural predator in the ocean that keeps the rocks clear and allows coralline to take over. A predator we don’t have in our tanks.

Dang. I was really hoping it was just regular gha and the turbo would help make a dent in it. Hermits, cerith and astrea all seem fine so far. The emerald crab should be fine... the next algae moving in is bubble algae.

Right now, I have been scrubbing nightly as well as changing out the filter floss since it gets plugged up daily as well. My refugium is back growing algae again, I pulled out a ton of it last night. So, I am guessing I have nutrients, but they are getting used up by the algae and that's why it's reading 0 for nitrates. Maybe I should try some chaeto...

In for support. I'm dealing with similar issues. Coincidentally mine exploded after dosing iron when I saw iron was depleted in an ICP. Pincushion urchins have been only cuc I've seen mowing this down. I have about 50 trochus, turbos, top crowns, bumble bees, etc but they don't seem to make much difference. I've also found manually pulling followed by a thorough toothbrush scrub works well. As like you when this stuff starts to cover my zoas or other corals it's very hard to do anything about. I've tried peroxide dips for the corals in dire circumstances but they do not do well from this and it usually just accelerates their death.

Mine looks very similar to yours, but it got all over the euphyllia frags. Dipping in h2o2 worked... but my test one hasn't opened up yet. So I am hesitant to try it with the rest, but man is it hard to keep it off them. My tank isn't big enough for a pincushion and I don't really have a LFS to return it too. I have been looking for a tuxedo urchin which might do the same thing

 

[TokenReefer]

Really sounds like you've got a handle on it. If you don't mind one more suggestion... don't harvest/remove any algae from the refugium while you're fighting this; let it become the nutrient absorber til the dt is lookin nice; then tackle the sump...