Possible solution to end RTN forever?!?

[MnFish1]

If that happens...the parasites are already present within or on the coral! No really...that’s been suggested and the Doc said he’s seen them easily going in and out of the coral. It’s mentioned in one of his videos I believe. Who knows. We need to test test test.

If you find a dead deer in the forest and there are millions of maggots eating the dead tissue does that mean that the maggots caused the death?

 

[ca1ore]

Yeah I’ve seen that study already. I’m not saying that RTN cannot be caused by these parasites. The evidence for that seems plausible. What seems less compelling to me is the assertion that ALL observable RTN is caused by them. If thst were the case, a new coral exhibiting RTN would surely spread to other colonies; or at least to other new colonies introduced at the same time. Mostly it does not. I appreciate the desire for a ‘eureka’ moment; heck, it’d be cool if RTN could be arrested with specific meds that attack the parasite. Maybe that will be the case. Until then. I shall remain amongst the skeptics.

 

[MnFish1]

Sorry to burst your bubble man, but Dr Ara Deukmedjian is actually a board certified Neuro Surgeon with 21 years experience.

Are you kidding? The guys point was he could be a dentist. No offense but neurosurgery has about as much to do with Parasitology as debtistry

 

[MnFish1]

The treatments are expensive to make because the ingredients cost a lot. It’s about covering cost of production.

I thought metronidazole killed this parasite. That is not expensive.

 

[Dkeller_nc]

Yeah I’ve seen that study already. I’m not saying that RTN cannot be caused by these parasites. The evidence for that seems plausible. What seems less compelling to me is the assertion that ALL observable RTN is caused by them. If thst were the case, a new coral exhibiting RTN would surely spread to other colonies; or at least to other new colonies introduced at the same time. Mostly it does not. I appreciate the desire for a ‘eureka’ moment; heck, it’d be cool if RTN could be arrested with specific meds that attack the parasite. Maybe that will be the case. Until then. I shall remain amongst the skeptics.

I'm assuming you've seen this, but the idea that ciliate protozoans might play a role in major coral diseases is hardly a "eureka" moment. There's been quite a bit of research into this subject - this article summarizes some of the more recent studies.

 

[rockskimmerflow]

So does the Philaster lucinda parasite = Brown Jelly disease? Cause that's the only visible thing that has caused me to lose LPS and SPS both to RTN events in the past

 

[Demonic]

The treatments are expensive to make because the ingredients cost a lot. It’s about covering cost of production.

Those prices are ridiculous. You can almost start over rather than buy the product

 

[Reefnjunkie]

In order to collaborate, the parasite Philaster lucinda is known to be sensitive to metronidazole in low concentration, with MIC (minimum inhibitory concentration) of the order of 1 mg / liter administered 12/12 hours for 6 days. Metronidazole is safe for fish, corals, crustaceans and the biological filter (at this concentration and up to 10 times higher), not reaching the nitrogen cycle and can be administered directly in the display tank without major consequences. However ... well-conducted eradication experiments of the parasite Philaster lucinda failed to halt the progression of RTN in corals, as demonstrated in the topic below:

Probable new approach in STN syndrome?

Regards

Thank you for posting this Jose.

 

[Reefahholic]

Bauer does nothing to kill the RTN and STN parasites. Check out this video

Yeah, all it did for me was tick them off.

 

[sde1500]

BigJohnny
Do you believe the earth is flat?

Dr Stick up the rear, that ain’t how you properly market your product or generate good will and interest in your findings.

 

[jda]

Why would bayer kill them? ...have to have a nervous system.

Metro, as mentioned, can get them and is reef safe. Lots of people use it for fish and for Perkinsus in clams.

 

[Reefahholic]

Thank you!
Dr Deukmedjian here from Prime Coral.
I personally don’t care if no one buys the treatments. What matters is that everyone understands these microscopic protozoan are the cause of coral tissue necrosis and they are being spread fro tank to tank and coral to coral because they are an INFECTION. They are an infectious disease. We must treat RTN and STN as an infectious disease. Right now we are not and it is causing the spread to get worse. Literally it is like spreading AIDS virus and people need to understand that.

Yep.. it’s like C-diff! Crap will live on a dry counter top for months.

 

[Reefahholic]

This doesnt make sense though. A parasite needs 'a host'. What is the host for this parasite? Are you saying its living on healthy coral to start with and then rapidly multiplies?

Uronema doesn’t need a host. It can survive on detritus and uneaten food. So not every parasite needs a host.

 

[Gregg @ ADP]

Amazing that, in all these years we have observed RTN, nobody ever thought to put the coral under a standard microscope and see the very evident microfauna crawling all over it. Maybe they just didn’t have anything to sell.

Doc, you did contradict yourself in your video. Early on, you said this protozoan caused all ‘non-stress related RTN events’, and then later said it was responsible for ‘all RTN events’

 

[ca1ore]

I'm assuming you've seen this, but the idea that ciliate protozoans might play a role in major coral diseases is hardly a "eureka" moment. There's been quite a bit of research into this subject - this article summarizes some of the more recent studies.

That’s why the word is in quotes..... because it isn’t actually an eureka moment.

 

[Reefahholic]

Are you kidding? The guys point was he could be a dentist. No offense but neurosurgery has about as much to do with Parasitology as debtistry

I think he’s got some nice credentials honestly.

Hello Dr Deukmedjian here. I am a biologist. Double major in biochemistry/ cell biology and second degree in chemistry from UCSD. Second I studied at Scripps Institute of Oceanography at UCSD. I am not a “spine doc” I am a Neurosurgeon thank you. And Frankly I cant stand haters.
The parasites are the cause of ALL coral RTN and STN unless you do something like boil your coral in lye where they won’t be. But don’t believe me and keep spreading the infection

 

[ca1ore]

This whole thing is beginning to smell a bit fishy. You've got Dr. Dre insulting folks who have the temerity to challenge his claims and folks making huge leaps of faith. A bit like the old scrubbing bubbles thread lol. Like I said earlier, I hope it’s true and that a reasonable remedy can be found. For now I’m going with the deer and maggots analogy.

 

[Reefahholic]

@Jose Mayo I really appreciate your contribution to this thread. Very interesting information! May I ask your background and how you know this? Please PM if your are not comfortable posting that in this thread. Thanks for bringing us another step closer to figuring out what exactly is going on.

In order to collaborate, the parasite Philaster lucinda is known to be sensitive to metronidazole in low concentration, with MIC (minimum inhibitory concentration) of the order of 1 mg / liter administered 12/12 hours for 6 days. Metronidazole is safe for fish, corals, crustaceans and the biological filter (at this concentration and up to 10 times higher), not reaching the nitrogen cycle and can be administered directly in the display tank without major consequences. However ... well-conducted eradication experiments of the parasite Philaster lucinda failed to halt the progression of RTN in corals, as demonstrated in the topic below:

Probable new approach in STN syndrome?

Regards

 

[sde1500]

Perhaps there is some merit to it. Haven’t had time to watch any of the videos on it. I immediately question anyone one speaking in absolutes though. Stating this cures/stops all RTN and STN, because it all from one cause, is quite a claim to make. Only the Sith deal in absolutes.

 

[MnFish1]

I think he’s got some nice credentials honestly.

Hello Dr Deukmedjian here. I am a biologist. Double major in biochemistry/ cell biology and second degree in chemistry from UCSD. Second I studied at Scripps Institute of Oceanography at UCSD. I am not a “spine doc” I am a Neurosurgeon thank you. And Frankly I cant stand haters.
The parasites are the cause of ALL coral RTN and STN unless you do something like boil your coral in lye where they won’t be. But don’t believe me and keep spreading the infection

Even if he was 'only' a neurosurgeon - those are great credentials. That said - none of them has anything to do with ciliate parasitology in coral. As many others have said - He may be right, its just that there is no evidence that I have seen (and it would only take a couple sentences to show it - I'm not into watching 10 videos to get the answer.

Did he 'infect' healthy coral with this ciliate and have it cause RTN? . Even then - it seems to me that its just as likely that many things can damage coral and these guys feed on dying tissue - as compared to 'causing' the death. But who knows. Its not up to us to disprove the theory - its up to him to prove it.