Post cycling filtration

[David Abbott]

I am in the build mode for a 150G bare bottom tank. as I don't plan on having a skimmer for the immediate future, and don't want a refugium section in my new Trigger CR44 sump because of the way it gets that "nasty" look after a short time. Adding ceramic balls, extra rock, sponge filters filter socks etc to the sump would be a solution for adequate filtration???

 

[blasterman]

Skimmers and fuges offset bioload. If you don't have a large bioload you don't need either.

Not a fan of keeping rock, or biomedia or anything not necessary in my sump because it falls along the same fail logic as bio wheels and wet drys. You want your biological filter in the tank...not in an external filter assembly. I have the same contempt for keeping bio rings and other media in cannister filters. Completely and totally doesn't make a bit of sense. You aren't solving a problem. You are creating a potential one.

Some reefers keep rubble for zoas or softies in their sump and use it as an ad hoc grow out. That's fine.

Just throwing extra rock in there though traps debris and creates another source of nitrate. It's just something more you have to clean, collects deitrus, and competes with the biological filter in the tank. So, I prefer to keep sumps simple and doing a specific job.

 

[David Abbott]

Skimmers and fuges offset bioload. If you don't have a large bioload you don't need either.

Not a fan of keeping rock, or biomedia or anything not necessary in my sump because it falls along the same fail logic as bio wheels and wet drys. You want your biological filter in the tank...not in an external filter assembly. I have the same contempt for keeping bio rings and other media in cannister filters. Completely and totally doesn't make a bit of sense. You aren't solving a problem. You are creating a potential one.

Some reefers keep rubble for zoas or softies in their sump and use it as an ad hoc grow out. That's fine.

Just throwing extra rock in there though traps debris and creates another source of nitrate. It's just something more you have to clean, collects deitrus, and competes with the biological filter in the tank. So, I prefer to keep sumps simple and doing a specific job.

So keeping the fish (about 5 or less), and a few anomines in a 150G until I can get a skimmer is ok?? so the filter socks changed 2 times a week will keep things running normal.????

 

[Azedenkae]

I am in the build mode for a 150G bare bottom tank. as I don't plan on having a skimmer for the immediate future, and don't want a refugium section in my new Trigger CR44 sump because of the way it gets that "nasty" look after a short time. Adding ceramic balls, extra rock, sponge filters filter socks etc to the sump would be a solution for adequate filtration???

No, none of that helps with the issues that skimmers, fuges, or similar take care of. Ceramic balls = nitrification to nitrate. Extra rock = same. Sponge filter, filter socks, etc. = mechanical filtration.

 

[David Abbott]

No, none of that helps with the issues that skimmers, fuges, or similar take care of. Ceramic balls = nitrification to nitrate. Extra rock = same. Sponge filter, filter socks, etc. = mechanical filtration.

So I have no option. the only way to get the filtration on a 150G is to have a skimmer and refuge

 

[JoannaCora]

I assume you’ll have live rock in the display? As long as you have something with lots of surface area (porous rock) for the denitrifying bacteria to live on then you might be ok depending on the bioload. When you say 5 fish in a 150g it’s not very descriptive, that could be a tiny bioload or a huge bioload if they’re big fish. I personally think it is ok to have rocks and ceramic balls etc in the sump as long as it gets good flow but no matter what things will need maintenance. If you clean the filter media with anything other than tank water all the bacteria will die and reset your cycle.

Long term you will want a fuge/skimmer, not necessarily both, depending on the load.

 

[Azedenkae]

So I have no option. the only way to get the filtration on a 150G is to have a skimmer and refuge

I mean if you want to be able to get rid of the same things a skimmer or a fuge would do. Sponge filters, filter socks and so on would only trap larger detritus, but you'd probably still have plenty that would pass through very easily.

So just to clarify, I am presuming though that we are mainly talking about ways to handle nitrate?

 

[Azedenkae]

I assume you’ll have live rock in the display? As long as you have something with lots of surface area (porous rock) for the denitrifying bacteria to live on then you might be ok depending on the bioload.

That would only work if you can create anoxic zones for the denitrifying bacteria, which does not seem to really be done easily for most people. Which is why adding rocks or ceramic balls only seem to increase nitrification, not denitrification.

To be fair aerobic denitrification does exist, but yeah does not seem to be very easily established in our aquariums either.

 

[David Abbott]

I assume you’ll have live rock in the display? As long as you have something with lots of surface area (porous rock) for the denitrifying bacteria to live on then you might be ok depending on the bioload. When you say 5 fish in a 150g it’s not very descriptive, that could be a tiny bioload or a huge bioload if they’re big fish. I personally think it is ok to have rocks and ceramic balls etc in the sump as long as it gets good flow but no matter what things will need maintenance. If you clean the filter media with anything other than tank water all the bacteria will die and reset your cycle.

Long term you will want a fuge/skimmer, not necessarily both, depending on the load.

I plan to follow the BRS video doing a 4 mo. cycle. so I guess after 4 mo. the dry rock will be live rock???. I am trying to get some live rock, but living in Panama could be a challenge Two yellow tangs (small) and two small clowns. And yes cleaning mech filtration stuff only in tank water at water changes

 

[David Abbott]

That would only work if you can create anoxic zones for the denitrifying bacteria, which does not seem to really be done easily for most people. Which is why adding rocks or ceramic balls only seem to increase nitrification, not denitrification.

To be fair aerobic denitrification does exist, but yeah does not seem to be very easily established in our aquariums either.

Well.........it just makes a guy wonder, how the aquariums of 40/50 years ago ever survived for years and years without all gadgets people say is "must have". Maybe i'm just to old!?!?!?

 

[Azedenkae]

Well.........it just makes a guy wonder, how the aquariums of 40/50 years ago ever survived for years and years without all gadgets people say is "must have". Maybe i'm just to old!?!?!?

I am one of the newer generations of reef-keepers, so I don't know how oldies did it. But yeah just if you want the same functionalities as skimmers/fuges, then the options you listed are not replacements is all.

 

[David Abbott]

I am one of the newer generations of reef-keepers, so I don't know how oldies did it. But yeah just if you want the same functionalities as skimmers/fuges, then the options you listed are not replacements is all.

If you noticed in my original post at the end of the paragraph I ended it with a ????? mark I was just looking for an alternate solution to having a skimmer or refug and including the items that is there in the post was a question. maybe someone from the #reef squad could steer me in another approach. Maybe its not possible, maybe I do need all this expensive stuff!?!?!?

 

[NashobaTek]

Back in the 80's we used undergravel and reverse under gravel filtration. Worked great but we also didn't have all these fancy expensive corals in our tanks either. Paul B has one of the longest running reverse under gravel filtration tanks I've seen.

 

[fachatga]

Don’t overfeed. Weekly water changes. You will be fine. Water changes can help cure most issues.

 

[David Abbott]

Back in the 80's we used undergravel and reverse under gravel filtration. Worked great but we also didn't have all these fancy expensive corals in our tanks either. Paul B has one of the longest running reverse under gravel filtration tanks I've seen.

 

[David Abbott]

Thanks for the reply, I knew there was a way!! But I am well passed that option as I already have my glass cut and drilled. I'm 75 and this is my first try at this hobby. Have learned so much by watching videos

 

[NashobaTek]

In fact I'm getting ready to redo my 125 and go back to the reverse under gravel filtration system. I'm not going to have a heavy coral load, mainly fish and live rock. It was so much easier and I don't need all this new fangled equipment to maintain a nice tank. It also becomes self sustaining with minimal human input. I never did weekly or monthly water changes and I never had half of the issues I see in the posts. Lol

 

[NashobaTek]

In fact I'm getting ready to redo my 125 and go back to the reverse under gravel filtration system. I'm not going to have a heavy coral load, mainly fish and live rock. It was so much easier and I don't need all this new fangled equipment to maintain a nice tank. It also becomes self sustaining with minimal human input. I never did weekly or monthly water changes and I never had half of the issues I see in the posts. Lol

 

[David Abbott]

Don’t overfeed. Weekly water changes. You will be fine. Water changes can help cure most issues.

Thanks. That's what all the video's i've watched says