Potential emergency. Flashing with no visible ich.

[Aronsaquarium]

Hi,
Wondering if anything can help here..
I’ve got a 4’ 75g with 10 fish in there.
I’ve been seeing some minor flashing with just my Blue Tang (yes i know I’ll have to relocate in about a year or so). A couple days ago, but now I’m seeing 4 of my fish flashing.
There is no visible signs of ich on any of them. And the flashing is about once every 30 min for each fish.. so like every 10 min or so I may see a fish flash and then fine for a little while.

Some context.
I did See white stringy poop from one of the fish, but the others seem to have normal from what I watched today.

I’m having a bit of a brown algae surge at the moment, most likely caused by an uptick in feeding a few weeks ago when I added a new fish (flame angel) and wanted to get him all Vitamined up and a little fatter. So I’m not sure if that can bother the fish as well..

My biggest red flag.
I’ve been pretty careful on quarantining only 2 weeks for my fish coming in. As I was focused on ich and velvet only with copper treatment and then moving over.
My theory is that I can treat pretty much anything else in the DT if needed. And it’s small enough that I can take a fish out to FW dip etc if needed.
So the copper was just so I don’t have to worry about that in the main tank so I can keep my starfish, anemone, snails and a couple mushrooms safe.

However the flame angel didn’t take at all to the QT with copper and I took a major risk putting him in after only 3 days in full copper levels.
He didn’t flash once in those days and looked completely clean, but I knew I was taking a major risk.
However I’m not convinced it’s ich at this time.

Is there anything I should be looking out for?
Or anything else it can be..

If I have to take out the invertebrates and put them into another tank so I can dose the main with copper I’ll do that.
But before I go to the last option, could it be completely something else?

I haven’t had ich in over a year in this tank.

I also happened to notice it get worse after cleaning the sand a bit. So not sure if something there is playing a part.

Thanks!

 

[Lps_lover12]

#fishmedic flukes maybe?

 

[Aronsaquarium]

Thanks!
If it’s flukes, what’s the best course of action I should be taking?

 

[Lps_lover12]

I would say wait for the fish medics to chime in and they will guide you best. Depending on the type of flukes there’s a couple different ways to treat

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hi,
Wondering if anything can help here..
I’ve got a 4’ 75g with 10 fish in there.
I’ve been seeing some minor flashing with just my Blue Tang (yes i know I’ll have to relocate in about a year or so). A couple days ago, but now I’m seeing 4 of my fish flashing.
There is no visible signs of ich on any of them. And the flashing is about once every 30 min for each fish.. so like every 10 min or so I may see a fish flash and then fine for a little while.

Some context.
I did See white stringy poop from one of the fish, but the others seem to have normal from what I watched today.

I’m having a bit of a brown algae surge at the moment, most likely caused by an uptick in feeding a few weeks ago when I added a new fish (flame angel) and wanted to get him all Vitamined up and a little fatter. So I’m not sure if that can bother the fish as well..

My biggest red flag.
I’ve been pretty careful on quarantining only 2 weeks for my fish coming in. As I was focused on ich and velvet only with copper treatment and then moving over.
My theory is that I can treat pretty much anything else in the DT if needed. And it’s small enough that I can take a fish out to FW dip etc if needed.
So the copper was just so I don’t have to worry about that in the main tank so I can keep my starfish, anemone, snails and a couple mushrooms safe.

However the flame angel didn’t take at all to the QT with copper and I took a major risk putting him in after only 3 days in full copper levels.
He didn’t flash once in those days and looked completely clean, but I knew I was taking a major risk.
However I’m not convinced it’s ich at this time.

Is there anything I should be looking out for?
Or anything else it can be..

If I have to take out the invertebrates and put them into another tank so I can dose the main with copper I’ll do that.
But before I go to the last option, could it be completely something else?

I haven’t had ich in over a year in this tank.

I also happened to notice it get worse after cleaning the sand a bit. So not sure if something there is playing a part.

Thanks!

Which copper product did you use and what treatment level did you use?
How did you test the copper level?
I dont recommend a 14 day QT, but rather FULL 30 day Unless the fish were Purchased as Quarantined fish.
Flashing can be from Flukes, skin irritation associated with mucus cones or velvet.
Helpful would be more information as well as pic/videos under white lighting.
Any loss in appetite, labored breathing, scratching against objects, gasping at the surface or cloudy eyes?

 

[Aronsaquarium]

I used Cupramine.
It’s been very successful in the past at ridding ich for good.
I had it at just under/about 1ppm.
Testing with API. I know it’s not hanna, but I’ve gotten pretty experienced I think at keeping that shade of yellow/orange consistent over the last couple years lol

No loss of appetite. Breathing normally. No gasping or cloudy eyes.
They’ll look for a perfect rock to rub against. Go a couple times and then be fine for a little while.

3 angle fish have zero visible things on them at all. The blue tang seems to have an injury.
(Those are the 4 flashing)


I’ll put a picture here, you have to ignore the white dots. That’s sand that came with it when I put it in a fresh water dip yesterday.
But you can see an injury above its gills.

 

[Aronsaquarium]

Lights are out at the moment, so things are quiter but they’re swimming around calmly.
You can see the blue tang flash at the end of that clip in the cave on the right side.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I used Cupramine.
It’s been very successful in the past at ridding ich for good.
I had it at just under/about 1ppm.
Testing with API. I know it’s not hanna, but I’ve gotten pretty experienced I think at keeping that shade of yellow/orange consistent over the last couple years lol

No loss of appetite. Breathing normally. No gasping or cloudy eyes.
They’ll look for a perfect rock to rub against. Go a couple times and then be fine for a little while.

3 angle fish have zero visible things on them at all. The blue tang seems to have an injury.
(Those are the 4 flashing)


I’ll put a picture here, you have to ignore the white dots. That’s sand that came with it when I put it in a fresh water dip yesterday.
But you can see an injury above its gills.

Cupramine is an ionic copper, and some fish don't tolerate that very well (flame angels for example). If you use coppersafe or copper power, you will see fewer side effects.

Jay

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Lights are out at the moment, so things are quiter but they’re swimming around calmly.
You can see the blue tang flash at the end of that clip in the cave on the right side.

I don't see any secondary signs of flukes, but sometimes, when flukes first get started up, all you see is occasional flashing.

Praziquantel powder or Prazipro could be used. You would dose it 2x, 8 days apart with good aeration.

Speaking of aeration, I would add additional aeration to this tank just as a matter of good husbandry. With a glass cover, you can end up with a gas imbalance. The only aeration I see is the skimmer outside the tank? If that turns off or breaks down, you might run into issues with that number of fish in the tank. I would use an air pump and airstone to inject air under the glass lid.

Jay

 

[nereefpat]

Thanks!
If it’s flukes, what’s the best course of action I should be taking?

Prazi in the display. Full dose, then wait a week, and then dose again.

 

[Aronsaquarium]

I don't see any secondary signs of flukes, but sometimes, when flukes first get started up, all you see is occasional flashing.

Praziquantel powder or Prazipro could be used. You would dose it 2x, 8 days apart with good aeration.

Speaking of aeration, I would add additional aeration to this tank just as a matter of good husbandry. With a glass cover, you can end up with a gas imbalance. The only aeration I see is the skimmer outside the tank? If that turns off or breaks down, you might run into issues with that number of fish in the tank. I would use an air pump and airstone to inject air under the glass lid.

Jay

Thank you so much!
So assuming we’re dealing with flukes.
(I’ll take another video as soon as the lights go on so you can see if I’ve missed anything here..
What’s the count for prazipro, because I think I messed up the timing last time I did this last year..
I turn off skimmer and take carbon out of filter I assume?
And then with day one of prazi being today, what’s the day count for treatment?


(Yes right now the aeration comes from the skimmer, it keeps the PH steady.
I’ll put in an air stone, and for prazi ive left the glass on top open as well)

 

[Aronsaquarium]

I don't see any secondary signs of flukes, but sometimes, when flukes first get started up, all you see is occasional flashing.

Praziquantel powder or Prazipro could be used. You would dose it 2x, 8 days apart with good aeration.

Speaking of aeration, I would add additional aeration to this tank just as a matter of good husbandry. With a glass cover, you can end up with a gas imbalance. The only aeration I see is the skimmer outside the tank? If that turns off or breaks down, you might run into issues with that number of fish in the tank. I would use an air pump and airstone to inject air under the glass lid.

Jay

I Just took this video now. I’m about to feed them so they’re coming up.
I don’t think I see any ich here.. unless you think I’m wrong..

So if we’re all thinking prazipro, I’ll go pick up some when the store opens in 30 min.

How does the days count work?
Is it dose today - Sunday.
Water change in 5 days - Friday
Next dose days 8 from today - Monday
Water change 5 days later - Saturday
And then skimmer can go back on and carbon back in after second water change?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I Just took this video now. I’m about to feed them so they’re coming up.
I don’t think I see any ich here.. unless you think I’m wrong..

So if we’re all thinking prazipro, I’ll go pick up some when the store opens in 30 min.

How does the days count work?
Is it dose today - Sunday.
Water change in 5 days - Friday
Next dose days 8 from today - Monday
Water change 5 days later - Saturday
And then skimmer can go back on and carbon back in after second water change?

Yes, that day count works. Many people add a third treatment, just to try to better break the life cycle of any egg laying flukes (prazi doesn't kill fluke eggs).

You can do the water changes as soon as 3 days after your prazi dose.

Yes, stop using carbon, but continue to run whatever filter held the carbon. For skimmers, you need to still run them, just don't collect any skimmate. If you turn that skimmer off and dose prazipro with no additional aeration in this tank, I'm pretty confident you will lose fish. Prazipro uses glycol as a solvent. That acts as a carbon source for heterotrophic bacteria. The bacteria eats the glycol, using oxygen and producing carbon dioxide at the same time - taking the oxygen away from the fish.

Jay

 

[Aronsaquarium]

Yes, that day count works. Many people add a third treatment, just to try to better break the life cycle of any egg laying flukes (prazi doesn't kill fluke eggs).

You can do the water changes as soon as 3 days after your prazi dose.

Yes, stop using carbon, but continue to run whatever filter held the carbon. For skimmers, you need to still run them, just don't collect any skimmate. If you turn that skimmer off and dose prazipro with no additional aeration in this tank, I'm pretty confident you will lose fish. Prazipro uses glycol as a solvent. That acts as a carbon source for heterotrophic bacteria. The bacteria eats the glycol, using oxygen and producing carbon dioxide at the same time - taking the oxygen away from the fish.

Jay

Thanks so much!
Here’s maybe a better video.
You can see one of the fish flash at the end of the clip. I just fed them right before videoing.

So I’ll keep the skimmer on just take off the cup at the top. And take out the carbon.
I have an airstone I use in my QT, so it’s got copper in that stone.
Not sure if that means I can’t use it in the DT? Or that little amount shouldn’t be an issue?
Small ball stone

I don’t mind doing a 3rd dose.
I know it may stress out the anemone.. otherwise I haven’t had any issues wi try other things in the past with prazi

Thanks a million

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Thanks so much!
Here’s maybe a better video.
You can see one of the fish flash at the end of the clip. I just fed them right before videoing.

So I’ll keep the skimmer on just take off the cup at the top. And take out the carbon.
I have an airstone I use in my QT, so it’s got copper in that stone.
Not sure if that means I can’t use it in the DT? Or that little amount shouldn’t be an issue?
Small ball stone

I don’t mind doing a 3rd dose.
I know it may stress out the anemone.. otherwise I haven’t had any issues wi try other things in the past with prazi

Thanks a million

If you run the airstone in RO water with a bit of vinegar, and then rinse it well with tap water, it will be fine to use.

Jay

 

[MnFish1]

I used Cupramine.
It’s been very successful in the past at ridding ich for good.
I had it at just under/about 1ppm.
Testing with API. I know it’s not hanna, but I’ve gotten pretty experienced I think at keeping that shade of yellow/orange consistent over the last couple years lol

No loss of appetite. Breathing normally. No gasping or cloudy eyes.
They’ll look for a perfect rock to rub against. Go a couple times and then be fine for a little while.

3 angle fish have zero visible things on them at all. The blue tang seems to have an injury.
(Those are the 4 flashing)


I’ll put a picture here, you have to ignore the white dots. That’s sand that came with it when I put it in a fresh water dip yesterday.
But you can see an injury above its gills.

Unfortunately I cannot see the video. I would comment that a 2 week quarantine is not enough and prazipro afterward would help ensure no flukes. It worries me a little that you said you followed the 'mostly'. You may need to treat all of your fish - depending on the final diagnosis. A freshwater dip is likely to be more harm than good in this case. Hope this helps some. The key message - is consistency in your protocol

 

[vetteguy53081]

I Just took this video now. I’m about to feed them so they’re coming up.
I don’t think I see any ich here.. unless you think I’m wrong..

So if we’re all thinking prazipro, I’ll go pick up some when the store opens in 30 min.

How does the days count work?
Is it dose today - Sunday.
Water change in 5 days - Friday
Next dose days 8 from today - Monday
Water change 5 days later - Saturday
And then skimmer can go back on and carbon back in after second water change?

This tank has cupramine with an anemone?
As for first video with what you describe as flashing, my Hepatus tang does this a bit especially when other fish come near its spot. For prazi, change water on day 8, not 5 . . . . . . To clarify:
Apply initial dosage known as an interval for 8 days, do a water change and do one more 8 day dose interval
Use airstone with prazi as it does reduce both oxygen and appetite

 

[Aronsaquarium]

Thank you so much everyone!
I really appreciate it!
Going to get Prazi now..

Re Mnfish.
I’m not sure where I said mostly, but what I meant to say.
I went a little backwards maybe, but I first set up the tank over many months, and I kept Cupramine in the tank throughout while I got the fish I wanted.
Once I was happy I took out the copper, it was about a month process until I was satisfied that there was zero leaking from rocks etc.
And then I started to add inverts, anemone and mushrooms.
And I keep carbon in the filter just just in case..

I only added a few fish since that point, and the fish I added I only did as the bottle recommended.. 14 days of Cupramine and into clean tank i.e. DT.
I actually kept a couple of them longer than 14 days if I wasn’t happy about something on them etc..
I only really broke the rules with the flame when it just wasn’t eating in the QT. I knew it was a major risk.. though it was in strong copper for a bit.

I know if I wanted to properly quarantine I’d need a few fish tanks, and do like a 6 week process with copper prazi formaline if needed etc.
I was only QT based off what I can’t put into my tank which is copper for ich/velvet.
Other issues it’s a still a small enough tank I can deal with it like now with Prazi.
Although I know it’s not the ideal, I just don’t have the setup to do a major 6 week multiple stage QT. And here in LA, I can’t find stores that sell already QT’d fish which would definitely be the best option.

Now knowing I can use copper power instead of Cupramine I’ll definitely keep that in mind.. hopefully I won’t have to use it

The flashing has been a bit more regular the last couple days which is why I think I need to treat.

 

[Weeb]

try other things in the past with prazi

How many times in the past have you used PraziPro in this tank?

 

[Aronsaquarium]

I used it last like 8 months ago. And then maybe a year and half ago or something..