Potters Angel (fingers crossed)

[eatbreakfast]

In that case its any fish i have seen tangs go to town on coral eat entire colonies

I did always get juveniles and raise them in my tanks, so it’s possible my experiences is associated with juveniles that never ate coral in the wild and never had a taste for it

But there is a greater liklihood that an angel will go after a coral than a tang. From personal observations and experiences on forums, a tang is highly unlikely to go after a coral, less than 1%. Whereas Centropyge angels are significantly higher. "Safer" species, such as flames, coral beauties, range from around 33-50% likely to nip. Riskier species onlyincrease the chances that corals will be nipped or eaten. 1% is much, much less likely than 33%.

So warning the op, and any other viewers of the risk, only seems like a kind and responsible thing to do.

 

[ourcoralreef]

But there is a greater liklihood that an angel will go after a coral than a tang. From personal observations and experiences on forums, a tang is highly unlikely to go after a coral, less than 1%. Whereas Centropyge angels are significantly higher. "Safer" species, such as flames, coral beauties, range from around 33-50% likely to nip. Riskier species onlyincrease the chances that corals will be nipped or eaten. 1% is much, much less likely than 33%.

So warning the op, and any other viewers of the risk, only seems like a kind and responsible thing to do.

Lol opening a can of worms here

In my personal experience no

Where do you see 33-50% are likely to nip
Yes its rare if a tang eats a coral but thats what we observe tangs are usually captured as babies and very rarely taken as adults while angels are most of the times taken as adults or right before they turn
The only ones i have seen as babies are the “reef safe” angels flames etc

Raising them in our aquariums and in the ocean has different outcomes in the ocean they don’t have food so readily available so they turn to coral and get a appetite for it in our tanks if raised as juveniles on proper feeding with the proper diet they are highly unlikely to start with coral thats my opinion from my observations over the years

The op kind of knows because his post starts with crossing his fingers that means he is hoping for the best so warning him isn’t helping its just causing him to worry if he sees it nipping he will have to remove it unless he doesn’t care about the coral it is nipping

I can’t tell you how many times people are scared to keep fish because of other people scaring them not to its wrong there are some fish that are not supposed to be kept together with other species fish inverts coral and others that some people had bad experiences and others that people just repeat what others say over and over thinking it’s going become true (well google said so it must be true)

Im not saying you don’t have your experiences but i have mine as well

There is hardly any real research on Saltwaterfish (in the hobby) and most of the information is from personal experiences so we can debate all day about this people will take our opinions into consideration and go from there

 

[eatbreakfast]

Lol opening a can of worms here

In my personal experience no

Where do you see 33-50% are likely to nip
Yes its rare if a tang eats a coral but thats what we observe tangs are usually captured as babies and very rarely taken as adults while angels are most of the times taken as adults or right before they turn
The only ones i have seen as babies are the “reef safe” angels flames etc

Raising them in our aquariums and in the ocean has different outcomes in the ocean they don’t have food so readily available so they turn to coral and get a appetite for it in our tanks if raised as juveniles on proper feeding with the proper diet they are highly unlikely to start with coral thats my opinion from my observations over the years

The op kind of knows because his post starts with crossing his fingers that means he is hoping for the best so warning him isn’t helping its just causing him to worry if he sees it nipping he will have to remove it unless he doesn’t care about the coral it is nipping

I can’t tell you how many times people are scared to keep fish because of other people scaring them not to its wrong there are some fish that are not supposed to be kept together with other species fish inverts coral and others that some people had bad experiences and others that people just repeat what others say over and over thinking it’s going become true (well google said so it must be true)

Im not saying you don’t have your experiences but i have mine as well

There is hardly any real research on Saltwaterfish (in the hobby) and most of the information is from personal experiences so we can debate all day about this people will take our opinions into consideration and go from there

The 33-50% comes from a combination of personal experience and observations, and those percentages match up pretty closely to the reported experiences of others. Looking at experiences of others, it's fairly easy to see who are just repeating what they have heard and those that have experience. Just look at this thread. A number have chimed in on their own personal experience of nipping.

Age of collection hasn't had much of an affect, IME. An example that comes clearly to mind is that at the store I work with, we had a flame angel come in that was tiny, just post-settlement, even smaller than the tank raised flames that were available a few months back. Because of his novel size, he was put into a display tank, and even though the tank was fed hourly, he still began nipping corals. So badly that he had to be removed.

Why age of collection doesn't matter is because fish behavior is hard-wired pretty strongly into their personality, as instinct. In the wild coral is part of their natural diet, not as significant as sponge and algae, but atill part of their natural diet. Tangs on the other hand, have not been found to have coral as part of their natural diet. When tangs eat coral in aquaria, it is a function of an unnatural environmental.

Also, the natural diet of tangs and angels is not opinion, as stomach contents have been surveyed.

 

[Waters]

In that case its any fish i have seen tangs go to town on coral eat entire colonies

I did always get juveniles and raise them in my tanks, so it’s possible my experiences is associated with juveniles that never ate coral in the wild and never had a taste for it

That is true.....it can be any fish.....just some are more likely than others. I had to remove a Lubbock's Wrasse due to picking at my fleshy LPS coral....definitely a fish you wouldn't think of as a coral eater. It is also possible that raising them from juveniles made a difference....especially if they were tank raised on foods other than coral polyps.

 

[ourcoralreef]

The 33-50% comes from a combination of personal experience and observations, and those percentages match up pretty closely to the reported experiences of others. Looking at experiences of others, it's fairly easy to see who are just repeating what they have heard and those that have experience. Just look at this thread. A number have chimed in on their own personal experience of nipping.

Age of collection hasn't had much of an affect, IME. An example that comes clearly to mind is that at the store I work with, we had a flame angel come in that was tiny, just post-settlement, even smaller than the tank raised flames that were available a few months back. Because of his novel size, he was put into a display tank, and even though the tank was fed hourly, he still began nipping corals. So badly that he had to be removed.

Why age of collection doesn't matter is because fish behavior is hard-wired pretty strongly into their personality, as instinct. In the wild coral is part of their natural diet, not as significant as sponge and algae, but atill part of their natural diet. Tangs on the other hand, have not been found to have coral as part of their natural diet. When tangs eat coral in aquaria, it is a function of an unnatural environmental.

Also, the natural diet of tangs and angels is not opinion, as stomach contents have been surveyed.

Out of all my friends i might of heard of one or two that were nipping so your 30-50% in my case would be .01 %

People don’t chime in because they are scared of the backlash they don’t like to debate or argue they avoid confrontation or just simply don’t want to deal with it 30%- 50% then we should have at least 1000 posts out of the thousands that keep angels here on the forum

Just like tangs that little guy is possible he was a odd ball

Instead of saying 30-50% (on the negative aspects you can say 70-50% are not nippers

If fish are hardwired then a function of a unnatural environment should not be factor

 

[ourcoralreef]

That is true.....it can be any fish.....just some are more likely than others. I had to remove a Lubbock's Wrasse due to picking at my fleshy LPS coral....definitely a fish you wouldn't think of as a coral eater. It is also possible that raising them from juveniles made a difference....especially if they were tank raised on foods other than coral polyps.

I hear that some are more likely than others just not as much as 50%

The ones that i did hear of nipping were always adults (today i heard otherwise but that can just be a oddball or a really small adult )

 

[eatbreakfast]

Out of all my friends i might of heard of one or two that were nipping so your 30-50% in my case would be .01 %

You've talked to 1000-2000 people on the subject of angels nipping corals. Then please, encourage them to share their experiences, that's how forums truly benefit othera, through shared experiences.

People don’t chime in because they are scared of the backlash they don’t like to debate or argue they avoid confrontation or just simply don’t want to deal with it 30%- 50% then we should have at least 1000 posts out of the thousands that keep angels here on the forum

People have posted experiences that theirs have nipped and others that theirs have not. Check this thread, or any of the others that deal with the subject. You'll see people have indeed stated as much.

Just like tangs that little guy is possible he was a odd ball

But, I have seen more than just a handful of angels nip. I work with a store and I service tanks. The figures for just my experience deal with quite few, and over an extended period of time.

If fish are hardwired then a function of a unnatural environment should not be factor

Not true. You can see this presented in nearly all animals in captivity. They keep much of their instinctual skill set, but pick up new skills in captivity. A good example, is feeding shows at zoos and public aquariums. Animals learn to take new foods in new ways, howevee they still retain their hunting and grazing instincts and will revert to that given the opportunity or need.

 

[Eva Rose]

When members post advice and experiences it is for the benefit of members to make an informed decision. If you know likely risks you can either avoid loss or be prepared to act (example catching a fish) if need arises.
Advice is given not to be negative or be discouraging. Rather to share knowledge for you to make your most informed decision.

When I started out I received a lot of advice that was skewed towards the positive outcome. It cost me money and heartache in some cases.
Case in point - many people still encourage fairy wrasse harems. But in our tanks, keeping individual species works better. I learned this from articles by @evolved.

As for fish stocking, everything I have ever read by @eatbreakfast was totally on point. He has a lot of knowledge on different species temperament, habits and interactions. Following his advice has really benefited me in stocking & maintaining the tank I desired.

 

[4FordFamily]

For what it's worth @ourcoralreef I agree with @eatbreakfast's assessment of tangs and angels and the likelihood/probability of nipping corals.

There are few fish experts here, but he's one.

 

[saltyhog]

There is an article on another forum that summarizes the experiences of angel owners and their experiences with different kinds of angels. Some are pretty large samples some are much smaller. How long they had been in the tank varied greatly too.

Coral Beauty......23% not reef safe
Flame Angel.......20%
Potter's................14%
Flameback...........25%
Eibli......................56%
Rusty.....................0%
Larger angels
Majestic...............22%
Gold Flake...........34%
Regal....................26%
Emperor...............25%
Wantanabei..........0%

 

[dodgerblew]

I don’t agree
Some angels can be reef safe lamarck's angel are reefsafe
i have also had very good luck with some flames, coral beauty’s
Juveniles are usually reefsafe (many large angels species as well)
They will not eat all your coral within a day they will start nipping and slowly eat coral you will notice things closed when they are not supposed to be
I have also had a hipo tang that would eat stressed zoas so that makes me think no fish is really reefsafe they are all a gamble you need to keep a eye on your fish, feed them and don’t put stressed coral in your display

The genus Genicanthus is regarded as reef safe. However, all the other saltwater angels range from being iffy with corals to down-right coral consumption.

With some species of Centropyge which are deemed safer options, such as flames and coral beauties, it's impossible to say as a whole they are safe. Some individuals never nip, some nip immediately, and others are safe for awhile then begin nipping. But this is all dependant on the individual specimen. So nobody can say for certain whether an angel is safe or not, however if the owner in question is risk averse, than angels outside the genus Genicanthus aren't a great choice.

While nipping may be a slow process in many cases, that is not true in all. I have observed on a few cases an angel completely dessimating 10+ coral colonies in the course of a single day.

just an FYI, I added a "reef safe" Geni. Lamarck and it took less then 30 seconds and it was immediately going to town on my acans. Never seen anything like it. No angel is "reef safe". They're a cautionary fish. I do have a flameback and have had it for >1yr and it hasn't bothered any coral but is a butthead to other fish. Watching it and my flame wrasse flash each other is funny and pretty. They only do it under Reefbrites. They're like grumpy kids before they go to bed lol

 

[dodgerblew]

In that case its any fish i have seen tangs go to town on coral eat entire colonies

I did always get juveniles and raise them in my tanks, so it’s possible my experiences is associated with juveniles that never ate coral in the wild and never had a taste for it

how can you make a statement that "juveniles that never ate coral in the wild". You can't know that! I bought an ORA captive bred filefish smaller then the size of a quarter and had never seen a coral until being introduced to it and it started nipping. I compare it to keeping a cat with claws in your house. Their instinct is to scratch. Some cats take to a scratching post and leave furniture alone, some scratch furniture and don't touch the post and some do both. You never know. The answer to why you haven't experienced coral eating isn't your food it's good fortune and I'd like to send you a dollar and have you buy me a lottery ticket because you are a lucky person

 

[dodgerblew]

I also will mention that I had a blue hippo tang that decimated a tank of Zoas. I'm surprised it survived from all the toxin that dang fish consumed. I also think that size of tank plays a major role in the eating habits of the fish. Angels, being grazers will do better when kept in a larger tank with a lot of room for coral to grow and ample space to graze then to be kept in a smaller tank with a higher percentage of coral to available space.

I'd also like to say I've privately messaged eatbreakfast many times with fish questions because his knowledge and judgement is spot on and he's kept me from pulling the trigger on fish multiple times and I've been disappointed with getting advice I didn't want to hear