Powder Blue Tang Advice

[300bowler]

Just wondering who keeps Powder Blue Tangs and what your success has been with them? Any tips for someone looking to get one in the near future? Any advice will be helpful.

 

[Humblefish]

I've had my current one for 5-6 years now (pic below). The most important thing with these fish is to QT and provide them with a disease-free environment in the DT. They are very susceptible to ich due to their thin mucous coat. They also prefer high flow, as that simulates their natural environment. Powder Blues can get pretty aggressive, especially towards other tangs. Keeping them in at least a 6' tank (180 gal is ideal) seems to curb their aggression somewhat and provides them with plenty of swimming space. These fish are always on the go. :wink:

 

[300bowler]

Thanks for the advice. I have read a couple of times that if they are darting around the tank that is a sign of being stressed out. Is that the case or is that just a natural thing for them to do?

 

[trickedout900]

I agree they needs lots of room to swim. My powder blue flies from one end to the other in the blink of an eye. I have an eight foot tank so plenty of room is key. They are certainly ICH magnets so it's important to quarantine well. My PB catches ich all the time but I keep him well fed and he always fights it off. He also chases the crap out of my other tangs and nips at my damsel a lot. I recently added a fox face and that was a two day battle but now the get along just fine.

 

[Humblefish]

Thanks for the advice. I have read a couple of times that if they are darting around the tank that is a sign of being stressed out. Is that the case or is that just a natural thing for them to do?

They will pace back and forth if not given enough swimming room. The darting thing is usually to show aggression towards another fish. IME; a healthy/happy Powder Blue will cruise around your tank, doing laps around the rock work.

 

[4FordFamily]

I agree with the above except that my tanks are not ich free. I have had success anyway (with their more difficult cousin the achilles tang as well) because my water parameters are near perfect, I have lots of flow, I keep salinity higher than normal (1.026-1.028 - 1.027 is perfect), I leave nori all day for them to graze on (enough that they can eat 2/3 of the time the lights are on) rubber banded to a rock, and I microwave and drain 10 frozen foods, soak them in garlic guard and selcon, and feed several small feeding daily.

In my experience most people think a tank is ich free but in reality it's just not showing symptoms. And even if you can keep ich out, it's temporary at best and your fish will have no working immune response or resistance to it (like my resident fish all have - only new additions can and may succomb to ich the resident inhabitants never even show signs and has been this way about ten years) they will be wiped out by the parasite when (not if) it does make it back in to your system.

the key is not to get a giant powder blue, as they don't eat well, require constant grazing (LOTS of nori), and are a very high bio load fish as a result which will dirty the water quickly and continue to stress the fish more and more until death. Small/medium sizes eat better and are hardier generally, for achilles tangs medium-medium/lg are hardiest but the high bio load and crazy high need for much food is still an issue.

 

[Humblefish]

In my experience most people think a tank is ich free but in reality it's just not showing symptoms. And even if you can keep ich out, it's temporary at best and your fish will have no working immune response or resistance to it (like my resident fish all have - only new additions can and may succomb to ich the resident inhabitants never even show signs and has been this way about ten years) they will be wiped out by the parasite when (not if) it does make it back in to your system.

A fish's immune system is akin to our own. Unless afflicted by an autoimmune disorder, it doesn't "forget" how to defend against attacking parasites or harmful bacteria just because it hasn't been exposed to such in quite awhile. In the vastness of the ocean there are about a gazillion gallons of water diluting diseases from the fish. A healthy natural immune system can keep up with that. In our relatively small aquariums, fish are often overwhelmed by a much higher concentration of parasites, worms and harmful bacteria.

Ich can be kept out of any aquarium because it has to be introduced by an infected fish (or a coral/invert carrying cysts) in the first place. It all comes down to how much diligence one is willing to put forth thru proper QT to ensure ich does not make it's way into the DT.

 

[deerhunter06]

if he makes it past the first week and hes eating you are doing good! Mine is a powder brown but same thing, and he loves blackworms

 

[Z06-Hec]

I have 150 gal 6 foot long tank. When i got mine he was beat up, he was being picked on. Was super skinny and fins were all ripped up.
I nursed him back, he got fat, fins looked great and was always back and forth, he never stood still.
He started being aggressive to my purple tang which was bigger then he was, and anytime he would see my blenny would beat him up bad. Blenny being calm just let him peck away at him all the time.
Anyway, i then setup a camera and witnessed him pecking all day at my clams, goniopora and almost anything else he saw... all day long pecking at rock, pecking at corals, bothering other fish, eating everything in sight at feeding time, he never ever stopped !!!!
I ended up getting rid of him. I miss his colors but he was too much trouble.

 

[Mike J.]

I've had my PB for 4 years. It's amazing how fast they can swim. Getting a new fish to eat is the biggest obstacle IMO. Some natural macroalgae for it to eat will help a lot. After awhile of getting used to you they will eat out of your hand.

 

[4FordFamily]

A fish's immune system is akin to our own. Unless afflicted by an autoimmune disorder, it doesn't "forget" how to defend against attacking parasites or harmful bacteria just because it hasn't been exposed to such in quite awhile. In the vastness of the ocean there are about a gazillion gallons of water diluting diseases from the fish. A healthy natural immune system can keep up with that. In our relatively small aquariums, fish are often overwhelmed by a much higher concentration of parasites, worms and harmful bacteria.

Ich can be kept out of any aquarium because it has to be introduced by an infected fish (or a coral/invert carrying cysts) in the first place. It all comes down to how much diligence one is willing to put forth thru proper QT to ensure ich does not make it's way into the DT.

Unless you treat every fish, invert, coral, rock, sand, or anything placed in your tank with copper or 72 days+ fallow regardless of symptoms, it will
Make its way in at some point. Human error will occur at some point and our vastly incomplete knowledge of this hobby in general will lead to issues. Ich has survived the most strenuous and complete treatments and it will happen again. It is a when, not if it happens situation.

I kill far fewer fish without any qt than I did when I qt and ripped everything out of my tanks at first signs of ich.

1) the display tank ran fallow will lose much of its bio load capacity, immensely stressing fish upon return.
2) qt are unnatural appearing, poorly established homes with low bio load capacity requiring many water changes
3) water changes are immensely stressful, especially in a qt environment even if proper params are identical between current and changed water (almost impossible)
4) the chemicals used to treat the fish have unknown impacts on the animals. Dumping chemicals on them also weakens their immune system.
5) fish are less likely to eat in qt for the above mentioned reasons

In short, unnatural appearing and functioning quarantines full of chemicals and cramped spaces that stress fish with water changes and swings in parameters and low bio load capacity compiled with the issues of a fallow display tank (even if ghost feeding) are another formula for disaster.

I see your logic, but give me any fish coated in ich and I can put it in any of my three long established display tanks and none of my inhabitants will show signs or succomb. I feel my method is generally the better of two evils.

If a fish really needs treatment i own a hospital tank.

 

[deerhunter06]

Unless you treat every fish, invert, coral, rock, sand, or anything placed in your tank with copper or 72 days+ fallow regardless of symptoms, it will
Make its way in at some point. Human error will occur at some point and our vastly incomplete knowledge of this hobby in general will lead to issues. Ich has survived the most strenuous and complete treatments and it will happen again. It is a when, not if it happens situation.

I kill far fewer fish without any qt than I did when I qt and ripped everything out of my tanks at first signs of ich.

1) the display tank ran fallow will lose much of its bio load capacity, immensely stressing fish upon return.
2) qt are unnatural appearing, poorly established homes with low bio load capacity requiring many water changes
3) water changes are immensely stressful, especially in a qt environment even if proper params are identical between current and changed water (almost impossible)
4) the chemicals used to treat the fish have unknown impacts on the animals. Dumping chemicals on them also weakens their immune system.
5) fish are less likely to eat in qt for the above mentioned reasons

In short, unnatural appearing and functioning quarantines full of chemicals and cramped spaces that stress fish with water changes and swings in parameters and low bio load capacity compiled with the issues of a fallow display tank (even if ghost feeding) are another formula for disaster.

I see your logic, but give me any fish coated in ich and I can put it in any of my three long established display tanks and none of my inhabitants will show signs or succomb. I feel my method is generally the better of two evils.

If a fish really needs treatment i own a hospital tank.

I agree with most of this i QT for like a week not using any medicine and if they dont show any signs of sickness i throw um in the display. In the past everything ive had with ich has shown it in the first cpl days.

One thing though there are different more aggressive strains of ich while i do believe you when you say your fish wouldnt succumb to them because they are at "home" and comfortable in your tanks it wouldnt stress them to the point they would stop eating so they would likely beat it. That being said i dont think some wouldnt show signs of an aggressive strain of ich, thats just out of your control.

 

[Humblefish]

Unless you treat every fish, invert, coral, rock, sand, or anything placed in your tank with copper or 72 days+ fallow regardless of symptoms, it will
Make its way in at some point. Human error will occur at some point and our vastly incomplete knowledge of this hobby in general will lead to issues. Ich has survived the most strenuous and complete treatments and it will happen again. It is a when, not if it happens situation.

Tank transfer method in a non chemical prophylactic treatment which will clear a fish of ich in 13 days. As for newly purchased corals/inverts, they can be housed in a simple fishless frag tank for 72 days. Coral QT is not a bad idea anyway when you consider AEFW, coral-eating nudibranchs, flatworms, etc. I'd rather deal with those in a frag tank than my DT. :wink:

1) the display tank ran fallow will lose much of its bio load capacity, immensely stressing fish upon return.

Target feeding your corals/inverts and/or a pinch of flake tossed in every couple of days usually alleviates this concern. If you want to play if really safe, space out reintroducing your fish to the DT over a 2-3 week period. It's a good idea for the aggressive ones to go in last anyway.

2) qt are unnatural appearing, poorly established homes with low bio load capacity requiring many water changes

Many HOB powerfilters utilize some sort of bio media (exs. sponge, foam, ceramic noodles) which can house nitrifying bacteria to aid in the break down of harmful ammonia in QT. I almost never do WCs in QT using an Aquaclear HOB power filter, which comes with a foam insert that I “seed” down in my DT's sump for one month prior to use.

3) water changes are immensely stressful, especially in a qt environment even if proper params are identical between current and changed water (almost impossible)

When I do perform water changes in QT, I temp & SG match the water. I've never noticed any ill effects, even after performing a 50% WC.

4) the chemicals used to treat the fish have unknown impacts on the animals. Dumping chemicals on them also weakens their immune system.

I agree; and also the long term health effects of exposing a fish to copper, CP, formalin, etc. have never been studied. That's why there is a tank transfer method, a chemical free solution to ich. Also hyposalinity - if you trust it.

5) fish are less likely to eat in qt for the above mentioned reasons

Somewhat true; it can take a few days for certain fish to adjust to life in QT. However, the flip side is many fish stop eating & die when afflicted by a disease. At least in a QT there is something you can do about that other than "hope for the best."

In short, I realize ich management can work because I employed it for over 30 years. However, I hope you never have the misfortune of acquiring a fish with marine velvet disease or a gram negative bacterial infection. But if you do, I'll be over in the fish disease forum ready to help you.

 

[4FordFamily]

Tank transfer method in a non chemical prophylactic treatment which will clear a fish of ich in 13 days. As for newly purchased corals/inverts, they can be housed in a simple fishless frag tank for 72 days. Coral QT is not a bad idea anyway when you consider AEFW, coral-eating nudibranchs, flatworms, etc. I'd rather deal with those in a frag tank than my DT. :wink: Ttm is immensely stressful for fish and easy to cut corners



Target feeding your corals/inverts and/or a pinch of flake tossed in every couple of days usually alleviates this concern. If you want to play if really safe, space out reintroducing your fish to the DT over a 2-3 week period. It's a good idea for the aggressive ones to go in last anyway.



Many HOB powerfilters utilize some sort of bio media (exs. sponge, foam, ceramic noodles) which can house nitrifying bacteria to aid in the break down of harmful ammonia in QT. I almost never do WCs in QT using an Aquaclear HOB power filter, which comes with a foam insert that I “seed” down in my DT's sump for one month prior to use.



When I do perform water changes in QT, I temp & SG match the water. I've never noticed any ill effects, even after performing a 50% WC.
I understand your position here but that's highly anecdotal and doesn't mean that your fish do not stress. Most people don't have time or don't properly try to match params anyhow


I agree; and also the long term health effects of exposing a fish to copper, CP, formalin, etc. have never been studied. That's why there is a tank transfer method, a chemical free solution to ich. Also hyposalinity - if you trust it.



Somewhat true; it can take a few days for certain fish to adjust to life in QT. However, the flip side is many fish stop eating & die when afflicted by a disease. At least in a QT there is something you can do about that other than "hope for the best."

In short, I realize ich management can work because I employed it for over 30 years. However, I hope you never have the misfortune of acquiring a fish with marine velvet disease or a gram negative bacterial infection. But if you do, I'll be over in the fish disease forum ready to help you.

I've had velvet in my system confirmed by microscope once. Never ran the tank fallow. 1/2 the fish survived and after a few months I added more fish without issue. I doubt it disappeared.

 

[4FordFamily]

Also another reason for the die off was that at that point I did qt all off fish - I bought a clown from a fellow hobbyist who also qt'd and didn't qt him myself and he brought velvet to my fish with absolutely no defense.

I've seen fish succomb to parasites much much finer than ich in my tanks (only new additions, again my established inhabitants are unaffected) that looked like my confirmed velvet outbreak so I somewhat disagree. The same response to ich that fish can adjust to (my guess is a stronger and thicker slime coat and who knows what else) seem to help with this as well. Velvet looks almost cloudy and hazy relative to sandy like ich. I've also had what I think was brook that went away.

My point is, my fish (many of which are expert only or difficult) thrive and do not succomb. I understand all of the theories and other anecdotal and repetitive things regurgitated from forum to forum day in and day out but I know what works for me and really I draw on relevant experience. I've tried two years of proper qt procedures and treating ich and other parasites and had more difficulty than I do now. Now 10 years later all is still good. I also sell and buy new fish frequently as they outgrow my tanks, I decide to go another direction, or need to make room for a more prized fish. This happens often. People that buy my fish are very happy and they last a very long time because of their hardiness.

I won't pretend to know why it works for me exactly - just that it does and that I am by no means the only one that successfully does this. Most of us are quiet on the forum because people with far less experience (generally not always) and a much louder mouth borderline bully those who do not agree with their qt and treatment procedures. Many of those same people post about ich and disease issues more than anyone, ironically. It just seems like the cool thing to do is repeat general consensus around the forum rather than have any real experience with it. Paul had a great thread about this yestedday.

And the irony is that those who do temporarily keep parasites from their fish will eventually have parasites introduced unknowingly and the fish will have had NO working immunity and or a defense against it and they will nearly all perish and quickly. This will only further and cement their belief that ich is ichbola.

In reality, they did their fish a short term service, and a long-term disservice with that practice, IMO. Almost all of you that will or have done this long term will
Eventually have a run in with a parasite and it will be ferocious. Incoming, my fish are probably 25% more likely to perish from parasites than people who do qt them properly (and they don't die in qt and I submit to you that the percentage that don't make it through qt are higher than those who perish from parasites in my tank but that's anecdotal and only indicative of my own personal experience) but when they make it a month they will last YEARS happy healthy and able to withstand more. I've just seen it.

I've been in the hobby 12 years and owned 3-7 tanks at a time. 3 currently at my place and 3 at my parents that operate the same way.

 

[Humblefish]

3fordfamily I guess we are just going to have to agree to disagree. What's that saying? In this hobby, you pay your money and take your chances. :xd:

 

[4FordFamily]

Yup or I pay I say haha

 

[mrjlopez731]

I got one a little over a year ago. It didn't eat anything and died about a week and half later. At the same time it gave me such an outbreak of ick that almost killed my Blue hippo tang and my Sailfin tang. Had to pull them out the tank and get medicine for the ick. Lucky for me I was able to save the other two tang. I like the fish but not sure I will take that chance again. Next time I may first put it in a quarantine tank but ask to also feed the fish first and make sure it eats and not such finaky eater.

 

[mrjlopez731]

I got one a little over a year ago. It didn't eat anything and died about a week and half later. At the same time it gave me such an outbreak of ich that almost killed my Blue hippo tang and my Sailfin tang. Had to pull them out the tank and get medicine for the ich. Lucky for me I was able to save the other two tang. I like the fish but not sure I will take that chance again. Next time I may first put it in a quarantine tank but ask to also feed the fish first and make sure it eats and not such finaky eater.