Powder brown tang beating up copperband butterfly

[vetteguy53081]

Not unusual to have tang do this upon introduction.
You can separate them with egg crate from hardware /home store or isolate in the sump OR try a mirror against the glass in which the Powder brown will become preoccupied with the new - imaginary powder brown tang
Powder brown should simmer down little by little each day

 

[i cant think]

Just wanted to share.
Just got a copperband butterfly that looks very healthy.
My tank is well established (about 8 years).
I have an old powder brown tang that is dominate.

About a year ago I added a tomini tang.
The PBT beat the crap out of it. I didn’t think it would make it. Could see bite marks on fins.
But it did make it. It’s actually doubled in size and is great now. Amazing coloration.

The PBT went after the copperband butterfly I just put in. Started beating the crap out of it like it did the tomini. But the copperband is slower.
Now the copperband is on top of the waterline in a corner. Looks like it’s scared as heck to swim.
The PBT looks like it lost interest for now.
But I am afraid it will attack again if the copperband decides to explore.

I am debating if I should separate the copperband and put it in a holding acclimation container. I would like it to find its way and get used to the tank itself.

Oh it’s a 125g mixed reef. Filled with lots of live rock and caves.

Get rid of the PBT or the CBB. Powder Tangs are nasty when established and honestly they should only be left for the largest of tanks IMHO.

This isn’t unusual as Acanthurus, Zebrasoma, Prionurus, Paracanthurus get HIGHLY aggressive when established. No peaceful fish should be added once one of these guys have been in the tank for a while. I hate these tangs because of the aggression they hold. My only exception if I had to get a “Powder” tang would be a Goldrim. Other in this complex are; A. leucosternon, A. japonicus (The one you own), A. nigricans (Goldrims), A. achilles. IME A. nigricans is the only tang in that genus that is mild when established.

 

[A;exr54]

I have witnessed with my own eyes many tanks that have successfully integrated both copperband and PBT.

However my Powder brown tang is super aggressive.

So far the copperband is alive. And actually looks very healthy. I do see it exploring some. Mostly at lights out.
I also see it eating something. Nibbling at rocks/sand and also nibbling after I add live brine.
I think it helps that my tank is very mature at almost a decade. I really have not had any issues keeping expert level fish.
IE my green mandarin is about 8 years old or so.

I didn’t see it eating anything meaty with my own eyes when I throw in the thawed clam/squid/shrimp/mussel mixture.

During lights on it’s mostly in its corner. Where the tang seems to ignore it. When it ventures out I saw the tang bully it back into its corner.
The trap should be coming in on Wednesday.

Will continue to monitor til then. Most likely will try to trap the tang for a few days if the copperband still looks ok.

 

[A;exr54]

As of today (about 2 weeks later) the copperband butterfly is still kicking.
The tang aggression has went down considerably. Not completely. But it does look like the powder brown tang has lost most interest in chasing the butterfly fish around.
I do see it chasing for about a second when they cross paths then it stops.

I only saw the butterfly roaming and exploring at lights out before. Now I see it roaming and exploring at lights on. Which is a good sign.

The copperband butterfly does look very healthy. No weird spots. Is not itching on rocks. No fin loss. Swimming strongly.

However I am not positive if the copperband butterfly fish is eating well. It’s so hard to tell.
I do see it picking at rocks and sand bed. Also I do see it moving it’s mouth at feeding time. Like it’s eating something. Nibbling motionsAlso same behavior when I toss in some live brine.
But I just don’t see what it’s eating. It’s mouth is so small.

I do hope it will make it. I wasn’t to hopeful before. But now I feel it’s very possible.

 

[i cant think]

As of today (about 2 weeks later) the copperband butterfly is still kicking.
The tang aggression has went down considerably. Not completely. But it does look like the powder brown tang has lost most interest in chasing the butterfly fish around.
I do see it chasing for about a second when they cross paths then it stops.

I only saw the butterfly roaming and exploring at lights out before. Now I see it roaming and exploring at lights on. Which is a good sign.

The copperband butterfly does look very healthy. No weird spots. Is not itching on rocks. No fin loss. Swimming strongly.

However I am not positive if the copperband butterfly fish is eating well. It’s so hard to tell.
I do see it picking at rocks and sand bed. Also I do see it moving it’s mouth at feeding time. Like it’s eating something. Nibbling motionsAlso same behavior when I toss in some live brine.
But I just don’t see what it’s eating. It’s mouth is so small.

I do hope it will make it. I wasn’t to hopeful before. But now I feel it’s very possible.

The CBB is possibly munching on starfish eggs which is a good start however it’s even better if you can get them into a mixed diet of Starfish eggs, Mysis, Brine and live.
Mine takes pieces of food bigger than it’s mouth and doesn’t care. IME if it’s eating just a bit it won’t survive long but if it eats a lot like yours does, even without frozen brine as long as the population of live foods is growing strong you should be alright.

 

[A;exr54]

As of today I’ve now had the copperband for 3 weeks.
The aggression from the PBT has fully stopped. They swim closely without any hesitation now.

The CBB looks very healthy still. Although I still can’t be sure how well it’s eating. I do see it picking at rocks and sand constantly. But during feeding I don’t see the CBB eating any large chunks.
Overall looks good though.

I must say I find it alarming with all the posts about how it’s not possible, it won’t work. Etc…
Lots of doom and gloom. Which to be honest is not helpful.
But there were also many helpful posts about how it can work and what I should watch for and possibly do to increase survivability.
So I want to thank those people!

 

[Miami Reef]

As of today I’ve now had the copperband for 3 weeks.
The aggression from the PBT has fully stopped. They swim closely without any hesitation now.

The CBB looks very healthy still. Although I still can’t be sure how well it’s eating. I do see it picking at rocks and sand constantly. But during feeding I don’t see the CBB eating any large chunks.
Overall looks good though.

I must say I find it alarming with all the posts about how it’s not possible, it won’t work. Etc…
Lots of doom and gloom. Which to be honest is not helpful.
But there were also many helpful posts about how it can work and what I should watch for and possibly do to increase survivability.
So I want to thank those people!

Can you get live worms, reef masstick, and/or baby brine shrimp?

A Copperband needs much more food than what it’s getting from nibbling at the rocks.

 

[vetteguy53081]

My CBB eagerly eats LRS Herbivore diet as well as rods original formula and mysis shrimp

 

[Jbell370]

I have a CBB eats Mysis like crazy and is not really interested in any other foods, picks at the rocks constantly. He is housed with 5 tangs, first day was pecking order and now they have figured out he is no threat. Tangs are yellow, black, gem, chevron and mimic. Tank is 72*24*30deep, high flow, lots of rock work.

 

[jtf74]

I haven't read this entire thread but don't let any more bullying occur or you will lose that cbb. Was there a pic of the cbb? CBB's eat like no fish I've ever owned once they are established so they require a lot of food. A few years ago mine got a gash in his upper body from a yellow tang about two weeks into introduction into DT. I rehomed the tang and the cbb healed quickly . I had it in qt for 90 days and saw how much it beefed up from what I thought was already a good looking fish. A healthy fat cbb is pretty bold but one that is already thin and eating questionable amounts of food and scared may go downhill quick. Is yours fat and healthy and bold or a bit thin and newly purchased? Its not hard to tell if a copperband that is eating well is eating. This fish needs to be 100% feeding before it has any chance of standing up to a powder blue. I would separate and get that cbb eating or rehome one.

 

[A;exr54]

Bullying has 100% stopped.
The CBB is constantly picking. And is active during feedings. Looks very healthy. Has been in the tank for almost a month now.
But I don’t visibly see it eating large chunks.
I do feed live brine as well as a frozen fresh clam, shrimp, mussel, squid mixture.

I ordered some mastick. Will see how that works.

 

[nereefpat]

That's good news that the tang is playing nicely now.

Is it possible the butterfly has some internal parasites, and that's why it isn't eating? Was there any QT or deworming meds administered?

Masstick and live worms are good suggestions. Good luck.

 

[A;exr54]

Unfortunately I don’t have a source for live worms. So I’m a sticking to the live brine and my regular mixture. But will try the masstick when it comes in.
The CBB was prequarantined. I never medicate in my DT.
The CBB has no physical signs of any parasites. It is not behaving weirdly. No scratching on rocks.

The CBB honestly looks great. My only concern is I am not visibly seeing it eat any large chunks of food.

 

[Gobi-Wan]

Unfortunately I don’t have a source for live worms. So I’m a sticking to the live brine and my regular mixture. But will try the masstick when it comes in.
The CBB was prequarantined. I never medicate in my DT.
The CBB has no physical signs of any parasites. It is not behaving weirdly. No scratching on rocks.

The CBB honestly looks great. My only concern is I am not visibly seeing it eat any large chunks of food.

How is your CBB doing? They snap their jaws and twitch their head when they smell or anticipate food, but if you don’t see it eating chunks of food it is not eating enough to gain weight. It’s belly should be bulging after every feeding to gain back what it’s lost over time. Picking off the rocks is not enough. When I got my CBB it refused live black worms, masstick and every frozen food you can imagine. Finally it picked at a fresh whole clam. Once I found something it was actually interested in I was able to use that. I made a food dispenser out of a magnet, pvc plug and pvc cap with holes drilled in it. Once it ate clam out of that I was able to transition to other foods. That was in quarantine though without any other competition. However, I still feed all the fish from that feeder now out of convenience. The CBB can eat as much as he wants and as he does the frozen food melts and flows out to everyone else. Just what worked for me. Good luck

 

[Thetankdoctor]

Powder browns are just a$$holes...he may be fine for a week then attack again. They are just wired different.

 

[A;exr54]

My CBB is still alive and well.
looks healthy. Constantly picking at substrate and rocks. But same behavior when I feed.

 

[Gobi-Wan]

My CBB is still alive and well.
looks healthy. Constantly picking at substrate and rocks. But same behavior when I feed.

Try a clam if you can get fresh ones. If there’s a store with seafood that has clams they’re usually still alive on ice. Pick ones that close when you touch them. Then use a knife to pry it open and drop it in. Your other fish will probably go crazy too but if the copperband likes it you can figure out a way to feed it alone.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Bullying has 100% stopped.
The CBB is constantly picking. And is active during feedings. Looks very healthy. Has been in the tank for almost a month now.
But I don’t visibly see it eating large chunks.
I do feed live brine as well as a frozen fresh clam, shrimp, mussel, squid mixture.

I ordered some mastick. Will see how that works.

Start with smaller particle. Mine goes nuts with all foods but in particular LRS herbivore diet. Mastick is also a good food as is spirulina brine shrimp, mysis and plankton

 

[Vinman]

Not unusual to have tang do this upon introduction.
You can separate them with egg crate from hardware /home store or isolate in the sump OR try a mirror against the glass in which the Powder brown will become preoccupied with the new - imaginary powder brown tang
Powder brown should simmer down little by little each day

2nd the mirror. I do this every few months when my power brown acts up. Usually takes a few days to a week to simmer down

 

[gbroadbridge]

I have saw many successful tanks with both types of fish.
so I am trying my hand at it.

Why ask for advice if you've already decided what you're going to do.