Prazi gold not working?

[SGFishFanatic]

Hi guys, so I have a pair of clowns in quarantine today will be their 5th day,

I noticed one of them was flashing and decided to dose prazigold. His poop was also stringy and white (internal parasites)

Im also doing the tank transfer method as a preventive for ich. (Every 72hours)

So heres the breakdown for what i did
Day 1 noticed flashing
Day 2 dosed prazi gold
Day 3 100% water change dose prazigold
Day 4 observe fish seem okay
Day 5 flashing again from both fishes

Im wondering if
_A ive encountered those prazi resistant flukes

Or B _ i didnt give the meds enough time to work bfr a water change

Or C_ flukes just take longer to eradicate

both fishes seem pretty active, just that ive noticed their breathing is a bit on the heavy side

And also for the last 5 days the smaller clownfish hasnt been eating (refuse to eat mysis shrimp and pellets) the bigger one is eating well

Im thinking hes still sick so

deosnt want to eat
Or
Prazi pro suppress his appetite
or
The female bullying him ( i doubt this cause so far they've been pretty peaceful swimming tgt)

I kinda worried abt the small guy cus he really hasnt been eating anything

Im thinking to swap to API gerneral cure to treat them what do you all think ?

 

[ZombieEngineer]

Prazi takes two doses 5-7 days apart to treat fully.

 

[SGFishFanatic]

So i should chaage water after 5 days (from first dose)? , then dose again ? Im a bit concern with ammonia build up cus its a prerty small tank

 

[Sebastiancrab]

Suggest you get a hold of Hydroplex and do a 10 minute saltwater dip. It is low stress and will kill the bugs on them. Further treatment is still needed. I did not have much luck with Prazipro. It could be the flukes were quite resistant. I switched to Seachem Cupramine. It will also treat Ich and Velvet. Do you have some hiding places in your tank? I use some curved PVC pipe pieces.

 

[ZombieEngineer]

Suggest you get a hold of Hydroplex and do a 10 minute saltwater dip. It is low stress and will kill the bugs on them. Further treatment is still needed. I did not have much luck with Prazipro. It could be the flukes were quite resistant. I switched to Seachem Cupramine. It will also treat Ich and Velvet. Do you have some hiding places in your tank? I use some curved PVC pipe pieces.

Copper does not kill flukes.

 

[Sebastiancrab]

@ZombieEngineer Cupramine does kill flukes. I have used it for that and it also says it does on Seachem's website under the FAQ section:

Seachem - Cupramine

www.seachem.com

 

[SGFishFanatic]

yup, I have a few pipes as hiding places

 

[ZombieEngineer]

@ZombieEngineer Cupramine does kill flukes. I have used it for that and it also says it does on Seachem's website under the FAQ section:

Seachem - Cupramine

www.seachem.com

It kills freshwater flukes. Not saltwater ones. @dr.fish and @Jay Hemdal have posted many times that cupramine, copper power etc have almost no effect on flukes and both recommend Prazi and/or API general cure for the flukes part for this reason.

I agree with all of your other suggestions though minus the copper for treating flukes part.

 

[ZombieEngineer]

"Actually, copper has a hard time killing crustaceans (probably due to their protective exoskeleton) so possibly Monogeneans have a similar defence. Or perhaps they have a way of shielding themselves on the fish. All I know is I've tried using different forms of copper against flukes without success. :unsure: I believe prazi works by targeting a flatworm's central nervous system.

What's interesting is Coppersafe (chelated copper) claims to kill freshwater flukes (Gyrodactylus)."

From Dr. Fish

 

[gbroadbridge]

@ZombieEngineer Cupramine does kill flukes. I have used it for that and it also says it does on Seachem's website under the FAQ section:

Seachem - Cupramine

www.seachem.com

The Seachem website says quite a few things that are not particularly helpful.

 

[Spare time]

@ZombieEngineer Cupramine does kill flukes. I have used it for that and it also says it does on Seachem's website under the FAQ section:

Seachem - Cupramine

www.seachem.com

Seachem claims thing about their medicines that aren't true, as well as other products of theirs.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hi guys, so I have a pair of clowns in quarantine today will be their 5th day,

I noticed one of them was flashing and decided to dose prazigold. His poop was also stringy and white (internal parasites)

Im also doing the tank transfer method as a preventive for ich. (Every 72hours)

So heres the breakdown for what i did
Day 1 noticed flashing
Day 2 dosed prazi gold
Day 3 100% water change dose prazigold
Day 4 observe fish seem okay
Day 5 flashing again from both fishes

Im wondering if
_A ive encountered those prazi resistant flukes

Or B _ i didnt give the meds enough time to work bfr a water change

Or C_ flukes just take longer to eradicate

both fishes seem pretty active, just that ive noticed their breathing is a bit on the heavy side

And also for the last 5 days the smaller clownfish hasnt been eating (refuse to eat mysis shrimp and pellets) the bigger one is eating well

Im thinking hes still sick so

deosnt want to eat
Or
Prazi pro suppress his appetite
or
The female bullying him ( i doubt this cause so far they've been pretty peaceful swimming tgt)

I kinda worried abt the small guy cus he really hasnt been eating anything

Im thinking to swap to API gerneral cure to treat them what do you all think ?

Clowns appear normal. generally with internal parasites, fish will show thinning which these do not. is there a chance you are feeding them mysis shrimp, brine shrimp or both?
If so, these foods often mimic the stringy poop associated with internal issues. Prazi will address flukes when properly dosed. Treatment is 8 day interval, followed by a water change and one more 8 day interval. Freshwater dip initially will offer fish temporary relief if flukes are present.
Generally fish will show laboring for oxygen, refusing to eat which can weaken fish and its' immune system.
What symptoms lead you to determining flukes?

 

[Sebastiancrab]

Seachem claims thing about their medicines that aren't true, as well as other products of theirs.

Every Seachem product I have used has worked as their instructions indicated. I have called their customer service a couple of times and gotten very good support. You state you have tried copper but not Cupramine. Jay is well aware of my frustration with Prazipro. I know the Seachem product saved several of my fish.

 

[ZombieEngineer]

You state you have tried copper but not Cupramine.

Cupramine was the form that was generally used prior to Coppersafe and Copper Power. Nothing wrong with throwing the kitchen sink at flukes since copper is needed for ich and velvet anyway, but I wouldn't discount Prazi or API general cure just cause some cases have Prazi resistant flukes.

 

[Spare time]

Every Seachem product I have used has worked as their instructions indicated. I have called their customer service a couple of times and gotten very good support. You state you have tried copper but not Cupramine. Jay is well aware of my frustration with Prazipro. I know the Seachem product saved several of my fish.

I am not saying seachem's products don't work (I use a few of their things) I am just stating that they tend to make claims that are not true or are not backed up.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Hi guys, so I have a pair of clowns in quarantine today will be their 5th day,

I noticed one of them was flashing and decided to dose prazigold. His poop was also stringy and white (internal parasites)

Im also doing the tank transfer method as a preventive for ich. (Every 72hours)

So heres the breakdown for what i did
Day 1 noticed flashing
Day 2 dosed prazi gold
Day 3 100% water change dose prazigold
Day 4 observe fish seem okay
Day 5 flashing again from both fishes

Im wondering if
_A ive encountered those prazi resistant flukes

Or B _ i didnt give the meds enough time to work bfr a water change

Or C_ flukes just take longer to eradicate

both fishes seem pretty active, just that ive noticed their breathing is a bit on the heavy side

And also for the last 5 days the smaller clownfish hasnt been eating (refuse to eat mysis shrimp and pellets) the bigger one is eating well

Im thinking hes still sick so

deosnt want to eat
Or
Prazi pro suppress his appetite
or
The female bullying him ( i doubt this cause so far they've been pretty peaceful swimming tgt)

I kinda worried abt the small guy cus he really hasnt been eating anything

Im thinking to swap to API gerneral cure to treat them what do you all think ?

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

Praziquantel is complicated to use, and most manufacturers get the spacing of the dosing wrong….prazi doesn’t kill fluke eggs. You need to dose it, kill the adult flukes, let their eggs hatch out and then kill those before they have a chance to lay eggs. I space the treatments out every 7 to 9 days, but even then it doesn’t always work. Some people dose five times!
Copper is minimally to not at all effective against flukes.
Jay

 

[Sebastiancrab]

I am not saying seachem's products don't work (I use a few of their things) I am just stating that they tend to make claims that are not true or are not backed up.

Well, I think if you are going to make a general statement like that on a public forum, you need to back it up with facts. No one knows what you are referring to.

 

[ZombieEngineer]

Well, I think if you are going to make a general statement like that on a public forum, you need to back it up with facts. No one knows what you are referring to.

Here is just some of the snake oil. They take one nugget of truth and exaggerate it to the point of it becoming blatantly false. Seachem isn't the only company that does this, but they are one of the worse ones.

- Cupramine is EFFECTIVE against flukes when it has little to no effect.
- Prime "detoxifies" ammonia when they admit that all it does is convert NH3 to NH4 and chemists on this forum have failed to verify that even that claim actually happens.
- Matrix has superior surface area to other filtration and is 100% reef safe (LR has more and matrix leaches aluminum which is not reef safe long term).
- fish can absorb metroplex and cure internal parasites, when most of the time is only effective when consumed at proper weight dosing in medicated food.
- metroplex is an EFFECTIVE treatment against ich and velvet when it has no proven success in treating velvet outbreaks that I have ever found and is objectively inferior to copper.

 

[MnFish1]

Lots of opinions here - to answer the OP directly:

1. I dont think you have encountered Prazi resistant flukes.
2. I don't think you gave the medication according to directions (at least the ones I read) - concerning the duration of dosing - I agree with you though - the way they are written are 'vague'.
3. Flukes take longer to eradicate than your apparent dosing.

The other options:

1. White poop does not necessarily mean 'internal parasites'. It can also commonly occur after shipping - as the fish are often underfed beforehand to minimize waste in the bag during shipping.
2. As @vetteguy53081 said - the fish look healthy - and flashing wouldn't necessarily be a symptom of internal parasites. Do they have other symptoms of fluke infection? Could they have another infection?
3. Did you use any other medications. (I assume not) like copper. If not - I would consider using the standard quarantine protocol used on R2R - which is 21-30 days of copper followed by 2 Prazipro treatments with a water change in between - followed by 2 weeks observation. (There is a sticky at the top of the forum to read the exact details). This will take care of other potential issues, as well as flukes.

PS - I have not heard of - or used 'Prazigold'. One thing that worries me - based on the instructions (at least the way I read them) - is that it mentions that it can be used on an ongoing basis as a preventative. IMHO - thats an easy way to foster Prazi-resistant flukes. "Can be used as a preventative by adding 5ml for 75 liters every 10 days."

 

[Spare time]

Well, I think if you are going to make a general statement like that on a public forum, you need to back it up with facts. No one knows what you are referring to.

Just look at Randy Holmes Farley's disputes with them about phosguard leaching aluminum. Or how they don't seem to understand how prime works. Or how you can't easily just feed fish medicine with focus. Or how metroplex isn't known to do anything for ich despite them claiming it to be an marine ich medicine. Or how their two part isn't truly a two part as it can't be dosed evenly in a 1:1 ratio. I'm not going to do the info searching for you as you very well know how to use this website. It is also fairly common knowledge with frequent users on this forum that seachem (and a whole list of other companies) are not honest or don't understand their products very well (or do and won't tell us as they may be lying about the effectiveness). This is something that plagues the hobby and everyone in this hobby should be cautious when it comes to a company trying to sell you things. To avoid derailing this thread any further, I can continue this discussion with you on another thread if you'd lile