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BAMatter

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I plan on treating flukes with Prazi- couple things…

Is this accurate?
Day 1 - dose
Day 8 - 25% water change
Day 9 - 2nd dose

When do I do another 25% water change?

After dose 1, do I run carbon at all before the water change? When do I put carbon, skimmer, UV back online?
 
I plan on treating flukes with Prazi- couple things…

Is this accurate?
Day 1 - dose
Day 8 - 25% water change
Day 9 - 2nd dose

When do I do another 25% water change?

After dose 1, do I run carbon at all before the water change? When do I put carbon, skimmer, UV back online?
Yes. To clarify in which it matches your post, apply initial dosage known as an interval for 8 days, do a water change and do one more 8 day dose interval
Use airstone with prazi as it does reduce both oxygen and appetite
 
Yes. To clarify in which it matches your post, apply initial dosage known as an interval for 8 days, do a water change and do one more 8 day dose interval
Use airstone with prazi as it does reduce both oxygen and appetite
Ok. Then another water change after the 2nd dose?
 
That never hurts, but prazi breaks down in 72 hours or less.
Jay
If it breaks down in that timeframe, what is the point of the water change after the first dose, and when is the best time to do it? I’m trying to wrap my head around the “why’s” of this process so I have a good understanding of this treatment.
 
If it breaks down in that timeframe, what is the point of the water change after the first dose, and when is the best time to do it? I’m trying to wrap my head around the “why’s” of this process so I have a good understanding of this treatment.
When prazi and its solvent are broken down be bacteria, that creates waste products, so the water change is for dealing with those organic wastes, not the prazi itself. If you don’t have a concern about higher organics in the water, the water change isn’t mandatory.

Jay
 
When prazi and its solvent are broken down be bacteria, that creates waste products, so the water change is for dealing with those organic wastes, not the prazi itself. If you don’t have a concern about higher organics in the water, the water change isn’t mandatory.

Jay
Ok, starting to make more sense. Just was confused as to why the dosing instructions called for a water change before the treatment, and it seems like there are a couple ways of going about this.

I would like to do a water change after the 1st treatment at least. When would be considered too soon? Guess I’d just like to know what the efficacy timeline is… is it after the 72 hours or is that just when it is no longer present?
 
Ok, starting to make more sense. Just was confused as to why the dosing instructions called for a water change before the treatment, and it seems like there are a couple ways of going about this.

I would like to do a water change after the 1st treatment at least. When would be considered too soon? Guess I’d just like to know what the efficacy timeline is… is it after the 72 hours or is that just when it is no longer present?
72 hours is likely the best time to do it, gives enough time for the bacteria to have worked on decomposing the prazi and the solvent.
Jay
 
72 hours is likely the best time to do it, gives enough time for the bacteria to have worked on decomposing the prazi and the solvent.
Jay
What has been your experience with what to expect? For example, someone told me things like bristleworms and flatworms will essentially get nuked as well, and usually within a few minutes. I’ve also seen conflicting information with effects taking multiple days. That said, my GSP and a couple bristle worms showed stress immediately after adding the Prazi, however everything went back to seemingly ok…
 
What has been your experience with what to expect? For example, someone told me things like bristleworms and flatworms will essentially get nuked as well, and usually within a few minutes. I’ve also seen conflicting information with effects taking multiple days. That said, my GSP and a couple bristle worms showed stress immediately after adding the Prazi, however everything went back to seemingly ok…
Most of my experience is with using prazi in quarantine systems. I’ve heard of prazi killing worms and stressing clams, but I think that is rare or misinterpreted. Prazi doesn’t actually kill flukes, it merely stuns them and they fall off the fish and are unable to reattach. I think it stuns bristle and fan worms, but they recover. I think the reaction with clams is due to the fine powder that is produced when you add it to the water.
Jay
 
Most of my experience is with using prazi in quarantine systems. I’ve heard of prazi killing worms and dressing clams, but I think that is rare or misinterpreted. Prazi doesn’t actually kill flukes, it merely stuns them and they fall off the fish and are unable to reattach. I think it stuns bristle and fan worms, but they recover. I think the reaction with clams is due to the fine powder that is produced when you add it to the water.
Jay
Have been observing my fish, my wrasse seems to be fairly lethargic, and this morning had a pretty long white poop. Have never seen her do this before. Could this be the Prazi treatment, or should I proactively start feeding some food with GC and Focus?
 
Long White poop = internal worm issues

use seachem metroplex by mixing it with focus, food enhancer, and frozen food
 
PraziPro stressed out my clams after both doses. Took a week or so after the water change to recover.
 
PraziPro stressed out my clams after both doses. Took a week or so after the water change to recover.
I’ve never heard inverts could carry flukes. Maybe they got eggs on them? Looking to see who else can chime in on this.
 
The fish had flukes. Clams were in the same tank.
Got it. I’ve only heard invert QT process is to sit them in a bare tank for a long time, like a month or more, to let whatever that they may have simply die off since they have nothing to feed on. But never heard fish meds are used on them since they typically don’t react well to it.
 
Long White poop = internal worm issues

use seachem metroplex by mixing it with focus, food enhancer, and frozen food

Just to caution folks - white feces are (almost) never caused by intestinal worms. Metroplex is not effective against worms, it is for protozoans an anaerobic bacteria. Also, the dose for it must be measured. 0.5% in food by weight is a good dose, you cannot just mix some in focus, you need to get the dose correct.

Here is a write up on mucus feces:

Excess mucus in fish feces[/B]: this will present as white or light colored, stringy fecal material that often hangs from the fish’s anus for a longer than normal period. There are a number of different causes for this, some benign, others very serious. Without access to a microscope, there is little that can be done to diagnose this issue effectively.

Idiopathic mucus feces: this fancy term is just to describe white mucoid bulky feces of no serious consequence, but of an unknown cause. Some suspicion is that this can be caused by changes in diet or diets high in fats.

Starvation: Fish that have no food moving through their bowels may excrete white mucoid feces with little bulk to them. The primary diagnostic for this issue is evident in that the fish won’t been seen to be eating. Resolving the anorexia is of course the prime focus to resolve this issue.

Bacterial infection: internal bacterial infections can cause stringy feces as well. While some of these may resolve on their own, medicated foods containing a broad spectrum, gram negative oral antibiotic may be required.

Metazoan infections: multicellular worms are often blamed for mucoid feces, but in reality, they are almost never the root cause for this, and really, can only be diagnosed through looking for their ova in fecal samples. Fish can harbor tapeworms and nematodes without producing mucoid feces.

Protozoan infection: Hexamita and related diplomonad flagellate protozoans very frequently cause white stringy feces, especially in newly acquired clownfish. Metronidazole is the most frequent treatment for this issue. It can be dosed orally at 25 mg per kg of fish body weight, or 5 g in a kg of food. However, it is a very bitter medication, and some fish will refuse to feed on food containing it. It can be dosed in the water at 25 mg/l, but this is more effective in treating marine fishes, as freshwater fish do not “drink” aquarium water.

Coccidia: These microscopic, spore-forming, single-celled parasites are common diseases in dogs and cats. In fish, they cause epithelial necrosis of the gut, enteritis and the copious production of mucus (Noga 2010). These cannot be diagnosed without microscopic examination, and there is no well researched cure for this in fishes, although Toltrazuril has been tested.

Constipation: This malady is often given as a cause for stringy feces, but it is not as common as one would think. When it is seen, the feces are usually dark, not light in color. Often touted as a “cure for constipation”, many aquarists add Epsom salts (magnesium sulfate) to the aquarium’s water – do not do this in marine aquariums, its use is primarily as a tonic/dip for freshwater fish. Seawater formulas already contain between 7 and 19 grams of magnesium sulfate per gallon (depending on the recipe). NSW magnesium level is around 1200 ppm and sulfur is around 840 ppm. Some benefit might be seen using it as a dip in additional concentrations, but adding a small amount to a marine aquarium itself has no benefit. Epsom salts do have some possible benefit when mixed into the food as a 3% by weight adjunct. Another commonly heard remedy for constipation is; “feed fresh peas”. This is an effective cure for fancy goldfish and Malawi cichlids that develop constipation and bloating. Again, overextrapolation has marine aquarists trying to feed peas to carnivorous fish, etc. The best method to enhance gut motility in fish is to feed frozen adult brine shrimp – not as a permanent diet, just long enough to get the constipation resolved.

Jay
 
Just to caution folks - white feces are (almost) never caused by intestinal worms. Metroplex is not effective against worms, it is for protozoans an anaerobic bacteria. Also, the dose for it must be measured. 0.5% in food by weight is a good dose, you cannot just mix some in focus, you need to get the dose correct.

Here is a write up on mucus feces:

Excess mucus in fish feces[/B]: this will present as white or light colored, stringy fecal material that often hangs from the fish’s anus for a longer than normal period. There are a number of different causes for this, some benign, others very serious. Without access to a microscope, there is little that can be done to diagnose this issue effectively.

Idiopathic mucus feces: this fancy term is just to describe white mucoid bulky feces of no serious consequence, but of an unknown cause. Some suspicion is that this can be caused by changes in diet or diets high in fats.

Starvation: Fish that have no food moving through their bowels may excrete white mucoid feces with little bulk to them. The primary diagnostic for this issue is evident in that the fish won’t been seen to be eating. Resolving the anorexia is of course the prime focus to resolve this issue.

Bacterial infection: internal bacterial infections can cause stringy feces as well. While some of these may resolve on their own, medicated foods containing a broad spectrum, gram negative oral antibiotic may be required.

Metazoan infections: multicellular worms are often blamed for mucoid feces, but in reality, they are almost never the root cause for this, and really, can only be diagnosed through looking for their ova in fecal samples. Fish can harbor tapeworms and nematodes without producing mucoid feces.

Protozoan infection: Hexamita and related diplomonad flagellate protozoans very frequently cause white stringy feces, especially in newly acquired clownfish. Metronidazole is the most frequent treatment for this issue. It can be dosed orally at 25 mg per kg of fish body weight, or 5 g in a kg of food. However, it is a very bitter medication, and some fish will refuse to feed on food containing it. It can be dosed in the water at 25 mg/l, but this is more effective in treating marine fishes, as freshwater fish do not “drink” aquarium water.

Coccidia: These microscopic, spore-forming, single-celled parasites are common diseases in dogs and cats. In fish, they cause epithelial necrosis of the gut, enteritis and the copious production of mucus (Noga 2010). These cannot be diagnosed without microscopic examination, and there is no well researched cure for this in fishes, although Toltrazuril has been tested.

Constipation: This malady is often given as a cause for stringy feces, but it is not as common as one would think. When it is seen, the feces are usually dark, not light in color. Often touted as a “cure for constipation”, many aquarists add Epsom salts (magnesium sulfate) to the aquarium’s water – do not do this in marine aquariums, its use is primarily as a tonic/dip for freshwater fish. Seawater formulas already contain between 7 and 19 grams of magnesium sulfate per gallon (depending on the recipe). NSW magnesium level is around 1200 ppm and sulfur is around 840 ppm. Some benefit might be seen using it as a dip in additional concentrations, but adding a small amount to a marine aquarium itself has no benefit. Epsom salts do have some possible benefit when mixed into the food as a 3% by weight adjunct. Another commonly heard remedy for constipation is; “feed fresh peas”. This is an effective cure for fancy goldfish and Malawi cichlids that develop constipation and bloating. Again, overextrapolation has marine aquarists trying to feed peas to carnivorous fish, etc. The best method to enhance gut motility in fish is to feed frozen adult brine shrimp – not as a permanent diet, just long enough to get the constipation resolved.

Jay
Would API GC with Seachem Focus (with correct doses together with food) be a good course of action? Or could the white poop be manifesting due to the Prazi?
 

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