Pre-Quarantined fish now gasping for air

[Malcontent]

Second study using nitrogen diffusion to separate surface and bubble mass transfer:

 

[revenant]

maybe brook?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Agreed.

So this just shows that (air pump with air stone) is a cheap way of moving water to the top to provide oxygen exchange at the surface, something I already said, hence these large airstones being deployed in outdoor pond environments/treatment facilities where powerheads would be impossible to implement/expensive to run.

Still, nobody has been able to provide any data that shows that airstones diffuse air into the water column at any meaningful rate.

Do you have access to Stephen Spotte’s Seawater Fishes? He describes how aeration reduces the thickness of the laminar layer allowing for enhanced gas diffusion. He goes in depth on the subject, discusses variables (bubble size, depth of water).
Jay

 

[BZOFIQ]

Do you have access to Stephen Spotte’s Seawater Fishes? He describes how aeration reduces the thickness of the laminar layer allowing for enhanced gas diffusion. He goes in depth on the subject, discusses variables (bubble size, depth of water).
Jay

I'll look it up.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Small wavemaker positioned to maximize surface agitation vs. Tetra AP150 and air stone:

Large wavemaker (~25 W) positioned to maximize surface agitation vs. water pump (~40 W) vs. Tetra AP150 and air stone:

This wavemaker turned the surface of my tank into whitewater. I could hear it in the middle of the night from upstairs and got up several times to check that water wasn't being splashed out of the tank.

The bottom pump was stuck to the bare bottom of the tank with the output aimed directly upwards. It blasted quite a lot of water upwards. The intent was to test the importance of circulation.

And while I'm at it, here's a 40X overdose of Prime:

Ha, this thread kinda went sidewise, didn't it?

What DO probe do you use? I have a couple of Hanna multiparameter probes and they are crazy difficult to use - membrane replacement, calibration errors, and then, probe agitation changes the readings too much. I wish I could afford an optical DO probe....

I look at aeration not so much as "adding oxygen" but as balancing dissolved gasses with atmospheric partial pressure. All our main systems have "de-aeration" towers - the name is counterintuitive, but they are just tall chambers filled with Brentwood media that the water pours over before re-entering the tanks. They de-gas any supersaturation events, drive off CO2 and balance oxygen levels with the air so it is at near 100% saturation.

As I mentioned in another post - if you can access Stephen Spotte's Seawater Fishes, he has a great amount of information on aeration in it.

Jay

 

[Pisanoal]

If I was Mike I would not want this thread closed before the resolution is found. Even if it's closed Google still finds it. I would hate that to be the most recent entry.

I want it deleted, not closed. Doesn't appear they are going to though.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I want it deleted, not closed. Doesn't appear they are going to though.

I reported it for you.

Jay

 

[Pisanoal]

RESOLUTION

I got home from work and the fish had died.

I was able to get ahold of Mike and his best guess was either ammonia poisoning or bacterial infection that got into the bloodstream since there were no other outward signs of disease.

He has been excellent and is sending a replacement next week. I offered to take care of shipping but he is sending at no extra cost.

My only complaint is how long it took to get ahold of him but that is understandable for how busy he is and he has been excellent since.

For the record to set this thread right in case it isn't deleted, based on my experience so far and my conversations with him, I would have no concerns with ordering from him again and would recommend his business.

 

[Pisanoal]

I reported it for you.

Jay

Thank you.

 

[Tamberav]

His response time is slow but he works another job and keeps prices very competitive… honestly ridiculously priced for QT fish. I am guessing if he went all out with staff and people to answer phones the prices would go up up. A fully QT gem tang sub 500 bucks with guarantee and refunds straight to credit card instead of just store credit… I mean that is awesome.

 

[Malcontent]

Ha, this thread kinda went sidewise, didn't it?

Yeah, I didn't know it became an air stone myth thread (they're very common on freshwater forums) until I clicked on it.

What DO probe do you use? I have a couple of Hanna multiparameter probes and they are crazy difficult to use - membrane replacement, calibration errors, and then, probe agitation changes the readings too much. I wish I could afford an optical DO probe....

I use this one. I have to say the optical/luminescent stuff is very nice. The one to avoid is the one by Thermo-Fisher which starts an unresettable timer on first use. Hachs have timers but they let you reset them on demand which is nice because lifetime is highly dependent on usage style.

It's kind of cool seeing the blue light being sent out by the LED and red light being returned at night.

I look at aeration not so much as "adding oxygen" but as balancing dissolved gasses with atmospheric partial pressure. All our main systems have "de-aeration" towers - the name is counterintuitive, but they are just tall chambers filled with Brentwood media that the water pours over before re-entering the tanks. They de-gas any supersaturation events, drive off CO2 and balance oxygen levels with the air so it is at near 100% saturation.

That's basically my take on it as well--returning dissolved gases to equilibrium with the atmosphere.

 

[Little c big D]

RESOLUTION

I got home from work and the fish had died.

I was able to get ahold of Mike and his best guess was either ammonia poisoning or bacterial infection that got into the bloodstream since there were no other outward signs of disease.

He has been excellent and is sending a replacement next week. I offered to take care of shipping but he is sending at no extra cost.

My only complaint is how long it took to get ahold of him but that is understandable for how busy he is. Unfortunately, that's why this thread was started in the first place

For the record to set this thread right in case it isn't deleted, based on my experience so far and my conversations with him, I would have no concerns with ordering from him again and would recommend his business.

just edit his info out of your original posts or edit out the mis info.

 

[Gp!]

...
Acute supersaturation
...
Chronic supersaturation

Can you clarify the danger here in laymen's terms?

Are you saying too much oxygen in the water is bad? I didn't realize that!

I've seen it posted on here all the time that water on reefs commonly reaches oxygen saturation levels.

Or is this talking about microbubbles in the water making it into the display?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Can you clarify the danger here in laymen's terms?

Are you saying too much oxygen in the water is bad? I didn't realize that!

I've seen it posted on here all the time that water on reefs commonly reaches oxygen saturation levels.

Or is this talking about microbubbles in the water making it into the display?

Oxygen is rarely a problem with supersaturation - it is almost always an issue with nitrogen. In home aquariums, this can only occur if there is an air leak on the suction side of a pump that injects air into the water under pressure. Counterintuitive, but aeration helps fix this problem (like shaking a can of soda).
Jay

 

[Pisanoal]

just edit his info out of your original posts or edit out the mis info.

I can't edit anymore. Too much time has passed. I would have done that already if I could have. #MODS any help here?

 

[Pisanoal]

#MODS thank you for helping on the edit on the first post. I appreciate the help. However, I don't think it really corrected the main issue as his name is still in the title and the inaccurate information is still the same. Can one of you please contact me so I can offer text to add to the first post to completely clear up the misunderstanding?

Thanks!

 

[Daniel@R2R Verified Admin]

I can't edit anymore. Too much time has passed. I would have done that already if I could have. #MODS any help here?

I have upgraded your account to allow you to edit your posts. I can edit the title for you if you'd like. Just let me know what you want it changed to.

 

[Pisanoal]

I have upgraded your account to allow you to edit your posts. I can edit the title for you if you'd like. Just let me know what you want it changed to.

You are awesome. Thank You.

Please change it to "Pre-Quarantined fish now gasping for air"

Thanks again!

 

[mjh712]

You are awesome. Thank You.

Please change it to "Pre-Quarantined fish now gasping for air"

Thanks again!

You should have included "Powerhead vs Air Bubbler, which is better at oxygenating a tank?" - or maybe that should be the email tagline that sends people to this thread only to confuse them for a bit, lol.

 

[Pisanoal]

You should have included "Powerhead vs Air Bubbler, which is better at oxygenating a tank?" - or maybe that should be the email tagline that sends people to this thread only to confuse them for a bit, lol.

I put a note in the original post on why I edited and that there is some good information in the thread on aeration... haha.