Predator Tank - Fish Ideas??

[CanadianReefer]

For the most part, the miles is a variety of volitan lion, depending on where you shop you may find the volitan, miles, and russells interchangeable. Experienced will find slight differences in markings, tentacle and spike length, body width, and so on; the miles is suppose to be a bit smaller, but in captivity the differences are slight. Their temperament and care would be the same. Coloring may be different as well, but so is the coloring within the true volitan. Check out the coloring on my volitan, he is huge almost a solid foot, they do rarely get this large in captivity, but I spoil the heck out os my pets.

Talking about the difference between a 135 and a 180, think in terms of square footage. Fish like a porcy does not like to be crowded, that's why I have always found them to be notorious nippers.

Out of curiousity, if puffers are notorious nippers, would they make bad tank mates for lionfish??

 

[CanadianReefer]

Puffers are less concerned about back and forth swimming, or swimming in general. The other factor is they’re quite dirty. Puffers do tend to swim up and down the front of the tank, IME.

It’s always a judgment call, however

What about a spiny box puffer? Seems they grow about 6" smaller than the porcupine. Would something like that still need more space?

 

[CanadianReefer]

The Garibaldi needs cooler water than we typically keep our tanks.

That's definitely important to know!! Too bad... i loved the orange mariings of the grouper and the garibaldi, but both are off the list

 

[lion king]

Out of curiousity, if puffers are notorious nippers, would they make bad tank mates for lionfish??

I have a dogface puffer with my volitan, and have kept a variety of arothron puffers with my volitans over the years with no problem. I would never keep a porcupine puffer in any of my tanks, personally I have never known one that was not a nipper.

 

[CanadianReefer]

I have a dogface puffer with my volitan, and have kept a variety of arothron puffers with my volitans over the years with no problem. I would never keep a porcupine puffer in any of my tanks, personally I have never known one that was not a nipper.

Thanks... it looks like the porcupine puffer is too big anyway, so I'll look into smaller varieties

 

[4FordFamily]

What about a spiny box puffer? Seems they grow about 6" smaller than the porcupine. Would something like that still need more space?

It might be fine, they aren’t too hardy, however IME

 

[lion king]

What about a spiny box puffer? Seems they grow about 6" smaller than the porcupine. Would something like that still need more space?

Another nipper that I would not keep with a lion, but definitely not as aggressive as a porcupine. Yet a difficult fish to acclimate for the long term, initially due to difficulty in feeding, something I always address by initially feeding live. Even after that for one reason or another, people don't seem to have continued long term success. Just something to be aware of, as some do.

 

[madweazl]

That's definitely important to know!! Too bad... i loved the orange mariings of the grouper and the garibaldi, but both are off the list

Yea, some of the miniatus are absolutely gorgeous with the electric blue spots. I had one about 20 years ago that was incredible.

 

[CanadianReefer]

It might be fine, they aren’t too hardy, however IME

Hmm. That's not good

 

[CanadianReefer]

Yea, some of the miniatus are absolutely gorgeous with the electric blue spots. I had one about 20 years ago that was incredible.

Yes, I agree - very beautiful fish indeed!!!

 

[CanadianReefer]

Another nipper that I would not keep with a lion, but definitely not as aggressive as a porcupine. Yet a difficult fish to acclimate for the long term, initially due to difficulty in feeding, something I always address by initially feeding live. Even after that for one reason or another, people don't seem to have continued long term success. Just something to be aware of, as some do.

I'd rather not have sensitive fish in this tank. I deal with sensitive creatures in my other tank, and it sometimes feels like a full time job. I'd rather have hardier varieties so I can enjoy this tank even more. Feeding live shrimp etc. is fine, but I'd rather avoid fish that are notorious for not living long, needing prestine water, ich-prone etc.

 

[vetteguy53081]

When I think of predator tank,..... it's lions, triggers and bears, well ok Groupers. Bear in mind though, most predator fish Do get Large and will require a large tank Now or in the future

 

[CanadianReefer]

Sooooo...

In scanning theough various puffers on the liveaquaria site, it states that of the larger puffers, I can add the following in a system my size:

Arothron puffer (though they quote a max size of 1'7" so I'm questioning the 125g minimum - perhaps it has to do with a milder temperament??)

Immaculatus puffer

Narrow-lined puffer

Can anyone tell me of personal experience they have with these fish? Hardy or sensitive? Interactive? General temperament?

So far, I'm thinking of the following fish in general:

Miles or volitan lionfish

Snowflake eel

Blue ribbon or red zebra eel

A puffer, from the list above

A trigger and/or a pair of triggers, depending on which one I choose... i love the crosshatch, sargassum and niger... I know the latter can potentially outgrow my system, so it would be a judgement call.

Keep in mind that I need a better home for my magnificent foxface (he and my one spot starting fighting one day, so he's currently in holding in a 100g system and needs more space) so he's likely to be put in this system.

The other fish I'm curious about is an angler of some sort and a marine betta. Not sure how they would fit in with the fish choices thus far...

 

[CanadianReefer]

Bump

 

[lion king]

In reality, in captivity, those puffers are likely to top out more like 7-8", I believe in the wild they are more like 12". If you want a real puppy dog with alot of personality, the classic dogface is the tops, I have a yellow belly(here's a pic of my fatty). And yes I believe why the tank size recommendations seem small is because for the most part they are relatively sweety pies. I've always had one, even with some of my more aggressive fish, I don't know why no one ever bothered them. The stars and stripes puffer(Arothron hispidus) does get larger than the rest and likely needs a larger tank, I've seen them more than a foot, mine was a good foot, also a fun puffer. The 2 you listed above I would say their personalities would definitely take a back seat to the dogface.

I would personally advise against the angler, the best results I've seen keeping these guys, is when they are in a dedicated species tank alone or with just a couple choices of select room mates. Feeding them can be a challenge and ones being fed a dead only diet don't live that long, even with the best care mine never lived more than 3 years and no one I know ever kept them even a year. They are sedentary in nature, so they can be easily picked on by more aggressive tankmates, Their lure(esca) which resembles food on a fishing line will likely be chomped.

Thge Marine Betta is an awesome fish, not brightly colored but the shape, movement , and display is interesting. They are very, very shy, like nothing I've ever seen. Many times will have to start out on live food, unless you get one that was captive bred. And can be picky which foods they will take to. I really rarely got a glimpse of mine, sometimes I thought he had just died behind the rocks. then reappear fatter than ever. Figuring out their favorite foods can get them to come out more, they don't seem to like bright tanks, and mine really only came out under blue lights or lights out with ambient room light.

 

[CanadianReefer]

In reality, in captivity, those puffers are likely to top out more like 7-8", I believe in the wild they are more like 12". If you want a real puppy dog with alot of personality, the classic dogface is the tops, I have a yellow belly(here's a pic of my fatty). And yes I believe why the tank size recommendations seem small is because for the most part they are relatively sweety pies. I've always had one, even with some of my more aggressive fish, I don't know why no one ever bothered them. The stars and stripes puffer(Arothron hispidus) does get larger than the rest and likely needs a larger tank, I've seen them more than a foot, mine was a good foot, also a fun puffer. The 2 you listed above I would say their personalities would definitely take a back seat to the dogface.

I would personally advise against the angler, the best results I've seen keeping these guys, is when they are in a dedicated species tank alone or with just a couple choices of select room mates. Feeding them can be a challenge and ones being fed a dead only diet don't live that long, even with the best care mine never lived more than 3 years and no one I know ever kept them even a year. They are sedentary in nature, so they can be easily picked on by more aggressive tankmates, Their lure(esca) which resembles food on a fishing line will likely be chomped.

Thge Marine Betta is an awesome fish, not brightly colored but the shape, movement , and display is interesting. They are very, very shy, like nothing I've ever seen. Many times will have to start out on live food, unless you get one that was captive bred. And can be picky which foods they will take to. I really rarely got a glimpse of mine, sometimes I thought he had just died behind the rocks. then reappear fatter than ever. Figuring out their favorite foods can get them to come out more, they don't seem to like bright tanks, and mine really only came out under blue lights or lights out with ambient room light.

Omg what a cutie!!!

It had recommended a 180g for the dogface, hence why I didn't feel it was an option... but if it tops out at 7 or 8", I think he'd be fine.

I have heard that anglers are difficult, and you make a good point about it being stationary. Others could definitely pick at him easily. I'll cross that off my list.

I love the marine betta in terms of looks. I've seen them in the LFS and they always drew my attention. A few people around the area have had luck with theirs being a little more bold... I guess it's hit or miss.

So, how does my list sound, then, if I were to add 1 lionfish, 1 dogface puffer, 1 foxface, 1 trigger, 1 marine betta, 1 ribbon or zebra eel, 1 snowflake eel. Do they sound compatible and appropriate for the 135? I figure they occupy different parts of the aquarium. The puffer and lionfish are up and down. The foxface and trigger are back and forth. The betta is in and out of caves, and the eels occupy the sand.

I would put my foxface in first, and perhaps the marine betta to boost up its confidence. After that, would you recommend any specific order?

Any idea how ich-prone these fish are and how tolerant they are of medications? I've heard that lionfish and eels are hard to medicate...???

I ask since I'll need to develop an appropriate QT plan...

 

[Forsaken77]

Oh I LOVE predatir tanks. Some of the fish get around 2 feet or larger.

I would stay away from groupers.

All types of triggers are good, except the Queen and the Undulated (very aggressive).

The Dog Face puffer has a great personality, along with the Porcupine. But I would stick to the small puffers so you can have more fish.

A dwarf lionfish.

The longhorned Cowfish. He does get quite large, but grows VERY slowly, usually sold the size of a sugar cube, and is fearless and curious. People say that if they get startled they can release a toxin and wipe out the tank, but you would literally have to have a marching band walking in front of the tank to startle them. They aren't shy fish.

Red Coris Wrasse also very good.

My personal all time favorite is the Harlequin Tuskfish (Australian). Best fish ever.

 

[lion king]

When I say dogface puffer I mean the Arothron nigropunctatus which I believe top out at about 13"(in the wild). I would say for the most part liveaquaria is the authority on suggested tank size. They use to say 125g now I believe they recommend 150g.

My vote would definitely be for a sargassum trigger.

All the fish you are looking at are pretty hardy, I would say none are what you would call ick prone. Lionfish do not handle copper, even if they make it through they will likely die within a year probably due to organ failure. Eels are as resistant to things like ick and velvet as one can be, i would have no concern there. Internal parasites are rampant, so just make a plan to address that issue.

To consider about your eel decision, you really can't go wrong with a snowflake or zebra, the ribbon eel is high maintenance. Even as long as I've had mine, still a challenge to feed, and everyone I know is amazed I even have him alive after 1.5 years.

Line up sounds great. None of the fish are so overly aggressive that I would be concerned about the order of addition. I would just make sure you have the betta, lionfish, and eel well accustomed to their feeding ritual before adding them into the dt.

 

[RtomKinMad]

I have many of the fish you mentioned in a 6’ 180g. And it’s too small! Trying to come up with a solution but may have to find new homes.
Here’s our fish list. This is an agressive fish only tank.
Harlequin tusk
Jewel eel
Foxface
Scopas tang
Sohal tang 8” or more- 10yrs old and mellow
Porcupine puffer (huge-10+” and 10yrs old)
****** trigger getting really big fast
Picasso trigger
Red tail trigger
Koran angel full grown and 10 yrs old
Emperor angel
Majestic angel


I need a bigger tank!

 

[Forsaken77]

I have many of the fish you mentioned in a 6’ 180g. And it’s too small! Trying to come up with a solution but may have to find new homes.
Here’s our fish list. This is an agressive fish only tank.
Harlequin tusk
Jewel eel
Foxface
Scopas tang
Sohal tang 8” or more- 10yrs old and mellow
Porcupine puffer (huge-10+” and 10yrs old)
****** trigger getting really big fast
Picasso trigger
Red tail trigger
Koran angel full grown and 10 yrs old
Emperor angel
Majestic angel


I need a bigger tank!

WOW! You're one of the few people I've seen that have so many fish at full grown sizes, except the Tusk and one Trigger (that I can see). Maybe the Foxface isn't full grown yet either. But great job on keeping them all alive and healthy this long. They look great.

I always liked how the porcupine lools like he has a permanent smile, lol.