Prevent PMUP from constantly pushing water

[GamerDadof4]

I have a PMUP in my sump that I was going to use to pump water out for water changes. It will sit in my sump and go into the wall, down into the crawlspace, and then out of a drain.

I ran the lines, put the PMUP in the tank but I never turned it on. Just the act of me putting it into my sump caused it to start trickling out water... Unbenounced to me - I woke up a few hours later and it had emptied my sump.

I pulled it out and it stopped. How do I prevent this? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I have a PMUP in my sump that I was going to use to pump water out for water changes. It will sit in my sump and go into the wall, down into the crawlspace, and then out of a drain.

I ran the lines, put the PMUP in the tank but I never turned it on. Just the act of me putting it into my sump caused it to start trickling out water... Unbenounced to me - I woke up a few hours later and it had emptied my sump.

I pulled it out and it stopped. How do I prevent this? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

It is triggered by a float. Sounds like it back siphoned and you need pump higher than tank to prevent siphoning. A check valve would prevent any flow UNTIL you physically turn pump on

 

[Albertan22]

It is triggered by a float. Sounds like it back siphoned and you need pump higher than tank to prevent siphoning. A check valve would prevent any flow UNTIL you physically turn pump on

No his issue is that the Drain is lower than the sump, he is sending it down to a crawl space. It is a siphon but a check valve doesn’t operate in a way that would stop it. He needs a siphon break. Maybe a solenoid that opens when the pump isn’t running and lets air in.

 

[GamerDadof4]

It is triggered by a float. Sounds like it back siphoned and you need pump higher than tank to prevent siphoning. A check valve would prevent any flow UNTIL you physically turn pump on

What is triggered by a float? The PMUP? I am not using this particular PMUP with an ATK - it is plugged directly into my EB83. I should be able to control it On/Off that way, correct?

What do you mean by 'Pump higher than tank'. The pump sits in the sump and just pumps water down into the crawlspace.

 

[GamerDadof4]

No his issue is that the Drain is lower than the sump, he is sending it down to a crawl space. It is a siphon but a check valve doesn’t operate in a way that would stop it. He needs a siphon break. Maybe a solenoid that opens when the pump isn’t running and lets air in.

That is what I figured. I did look at solenoids just now in another thread... I like to stick with the apex brand - but it looks like the apex solenoid is 1/4" tubing. I bumped all my tubing to 3/8" for larger water changes so it looks like Apex's won't work.

Any ideas for a good 3/8" solenoid I can throw below my tank...

 

[Albertan22]

A cheaper way than a solenoid might be a small siphon break hole in your line from the PMUP. Make sure it’s in the sump and pointed a direction where it will spray into the sump and be contained. When the pump kicks off it will suck air and kill any siphon if it is above the water line. I do this when I fill a brute with RO and use it as an oversized ato reservoir when I travel to keep it from siphoning the whole bin into my sump.

 

[Keesers]

Could you run a solenoid that is off (closed) when pMup is off then turn on (open) when pMup is on. Not sure what size line your using but McMaster makes nice ones to fit your needs.

 

[Albertan22]

That is what I figured. I did look at solenoids just now in another thread... I like to stick with the apex brand - but it looks like the apex solenoid is 1/4" tubing. I bumped all my tubing to 3/8" for larger water changes so it looks like Apex's won't work.

Any ideas for a good 3/8" solenoid I can throw below my tank...

I can’t recommend a specific solenoid but if you want to stick with APEX just find a John Guest T fitting that T’s a 1/4 inch tube from the 3/8. I assume they exist but haven’t used one myself.

 

[GamerDadof4]

The Siphon break that came with the PMUP looks to just be a 1/4" coupling with a hole drilled in it... Since I am running 3/8" should be the same right? Not sure if the siphon break is more involved than that.

 

[Albertan22]

The Siphon break that came with the PMUP looks to just be a 1/4" coupling with a hole drilled in it... Since I am running 3/8" should be the same right? Not sure if the siphon break is more involved than that.

Not really much more involved than finding a way to introduce air to the tube. If there is just a hole it will spray, so long as that’s ok in your situation and won’t cause floods or excessive salt creep then that’s all you need per my other post above.

 

[GamerDadof4]

I can’t recommend a specific solenoid but if you want to stick with APEX just find a John Guest T fitting that T’s a 1/4 inch tube from the 3/8. I assume they exist but haven’t used one myself.

I'm leaning more towards a solenoid just because I like the control.... but can you walk me through how a T would work here? My tube is 3/8" all the way to the drain. With Apex being 1/4" I'd rather not have the bottle neck. If I need to go with a different brand, I will just trying to envision how the T works.

Thanks for the help

 

[Albertan22]

I'm leaning more towards a solenoid just because I like the control.... but can you walk me through how a T would work here? My tube is 3/8" all the way to the drain. With Apex being 1/4" I'd rather not have the bottle neck. If I need to go with a different brand, I will just trying to envision how the T works.

Thanks for the help

You would find a fitting that where the straight part of the T is 3/8 and the stem of the T(90 deg to the straight part) is 1/4. From the 1/4 you would run some 1/4 in tubing to your solenoid, that your apex would keep closed during PMUP operation and open when it’s off. The flow would stay in the 3/8 line and the 1/4 would be either air locked or just pressure up with water but not flow.

 

[Albertan22]

Any scenario you do with a solenoid, regardless of size would need a T fitting to make work.

 

[Albertan22]

The price is ridiculous on this particular site but this would work.

 

[GamerDadof4]

Any scenario you do with a solenoid, regardless of size would need a T fitting to make work.

I really thought I had a handle on this solenoid thing but I guess I am wondering why I would need a 'T'? Doesn't my PMUP connect to one end and then my hose to the drain on the other?

 

[Tastee]

The Apex solenoid is not rated for saltwater, only fresh - don’t shoot me, I’m just the messenger!

The workaround to use this solenoid for SW is to use a Tee, connect the solenoid to the top of the Tee sucking air and close it when you want to pump water. It effectively acts as a controlled siphon break. I first saw @tenurepro post this workaround, very clever OOTB thinking.

 

[GamerDadof4]

The Apex solenoid is not rated for saltwater, only fresh - don’t shoot me, I’m just the messenger!

The workaround to use this solenoid for SW is to use a Tee, connect the solenoid to the top of the Tee sucking air and close it when you want to pump water. It effectively acts as a controlled siphon break. I first saw @tenurepro post this workaround, very clever OOTB thinking.

All of this now makes, what @Albertan22 was saying, more sense! Thanks for the heads up. I will give the 3/8" coupler with a whole drilled in it a shot first. See how it goes.

 

[sharpimage]

A solenoid is just a point of failure. Just my opinion.

 

[GamerDadof4]

A solenoid is just a point of failure. Just my opinion.

No different then a little plastic piece (siphon break) that sits near my sump and is the only thing that breaks the siphon and keeps my pump from draining my sump. It could easily get clogged... I get what you are saying about point of failure but unless you have a better idea to break the syphon.... I'm all ears - still learning all this so I'll take any ideas.

 

[sharpimage]

No different then a little plastic piece (siphon break) that sits near my sump and is the only thing that breaks the siphon and keeps my pump from draining my sump. It could easily get clogged... I get what you are saying about point of failure but unless you have a better idea to break the syphon.... I'm all ears - still learning all this so I'll take any ideas.

I would put in a syphon break, or 2 before a solenoid. I hole you could wipe down or clean with regular maintenance. A solenoid won't do anything until it fails.

Can't you just remove the pump from the water when you are done? You would just need to lift it until the water drains, then plop it back in. Unless you are doing auto water changes, then there would be more to it.