Prevent the ugly stage or embrace/encourage it?

[vanguard]

I ordered a 150 gallon tank but it will take 4-6 months to arrive. That leaves me with a lot of "forced patience". I'm going to create the aquascape then let the dry rock cycle in a salt water bin.

I've seen online that dry rock can sometimes be the source of phosphates. Even with water that's low on nitrates/phosphates people can get hair algae like in the picture below. I'm getting my rock from here: https://addictivereefkeeping.com/product/ark-white-dry-reef-rock-pick-your-size-and-weight/

So, my question is, "Would you put in the water, add some food for cycling, and leave the lights off or would you turn them on and let the algae run its course?"

 

[JoJosReef]

Maybe change out a massive amount of GFO/Phosguard to suck out the Phosphates from the rocks?

 

[Lavey29]

If starting new, I would use at least half real live rock from the ocean and second half can be man made. This will jump start biodiversity and microfauna in your tank and make subsequent ugly phases very manageable or even non existent.

 

[collins.jason.k]

With 4 to 6 months lead time there's no reason if you have the resources that you can't build a rock structure and cure it in a large bin of salt water and have it ready to go prior to the tanks arrival. This would give you a massive head start as you can place the cycled rock into your tank and effectively skip cycle.

 

[MischiefReef]

I’ve been in the same boat myself. I tried this method that was suggested by another experienced reefer and it worked quite well for me, although I’m not sure if it was just a placebo effect. I used dry rock for one of my setups and was also concerned about PO4 leeching. So I threw the dry rock and some cycled dry rock into a tub of saltwater and lit it 24hrs/day for 4 weeks. If you see algae growth without feeding, then the algae is now pulling the PO4 from your rocks. Then after this 4 week growth period, manual remove as much algae as possible, and then black out the tub for 2 weeks. This will kill off algae and you can remove the rest, thereby taking all the leeched out PO4 with it. On my 180gallon I did this, and I don’t think I had as severe of an “uglies stage”. And any algae outbreaks that have happened have gone away on their own without manual intervention.

 

[vanguard]

If starting new, I would use at least half real live rock from the ocean and second half can be man made.

We'll be moving over most of the rock/sand from our existing tank so that will go a long way towards making the new tank established in a hurry.

I'm mostly thinking about how to set up the new rock we'll be adding for success.

 

[vanguard]

I’ve been in the same boat myself. I tried this method that was suggested by another experienced reefer and it worked quite well for me, although I’m not sure if it was just a placebo effect. I used dry rock for one of my setups and was also concerned about PO4 leeching. So I threw the dry rock and some cycled dry rock into a tub of saltwater and lit it 24hrs/day for 4 weeks. If you see algae growth without feeding, then the algae is now pulling the PO4 from your rocks. Then after this 4 week growth period, manual remove as much algae as possible, and then black out for 2 weeks. This will kill off algae and you can remove the rest, thereby taking all the leeched out PO4 with it. On my 180gallon I did this, and I don’t think I had as severe of an “uglies stage”. And any algae outbreaks that have happened have gone away on their own without manual intervention.

This is exactly the kind of advice I was hoping to receive. Thank you

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

With 4 to 6 months lead time there's no reason if you have the resources that you can't build a rock structure and cure it in a large bin of salt water and have it ready to go prior to the tanks arrival. This would give you a massive head start as you can place the cycled rock into your tank and effectively skip cycle.

No need to cure new (previously unused) dry rock...

 

[mjw011689]

I’ve had the opposite problem with dry rock. Zero phosphates. And I’ve seen lots of posts on here about the same thing. Took 3 weeks of dosing just to get to a point where phosphate was present. Fought Dino’s for a few weeks and eventually once phosphate came up from zero I was able to cut the lights back and the Dino’s went away completely.

To answer your question though, it’s possible to minimize the ugly stuff if you’re introducing a solid population of pods and feeding live phyto. Obviously you’ll need to maintain nitrates and phosphate but assuming you do, pods and phyto should outcompete any algae, and since time is on your side, get that rock going asap and add a ton of pods. Get the rock as established as possible before hand.

 

[mjw011689]

No need to cure new (previously unused) dry rock...

He’s talking about cycling it. Dry rock still needs to be cycled.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

I’ve had the opposite problem with dry rock. Zero phosphates

Agreed. Dry rock usually takes up phosphates. Later on it can leach them back into the system, which is why a lot "suddenly" notice problems with elevated phosphates after 3-4 years...

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

He’s talking about cycling it. Dry rock still needs to be cycled.

Sure, but he didn't SAY cycling, he said curing... which is incorrect, and unless you can read his mind, you don't actually know which process he was referring to

 

[mjw011689]

Sure, but he didn't SAY cycling, he said curing... which is incorrect.

Agreed, but i know that in the past 10-20 years, we used to all call it curing rock when referring to cycling. Uncured rock was rock that didn’t have an established bacteria base, where cured rock just meant it was already cycled. I know this term has changed a bit in the last 5 or so years though, and cycling would have been the more correct term

 

[JCM]

I’ve had the opposite problem with dry rock. Zero phosphates...

I don't use dry rock myself, but I thought this was the much more common issue. I'd throw the rock in saltwater unlit for a couple weeks and then test po4.

 

[mjw011689]

I don't use dry rock myself, but I thought this was the much more common issue. I'd throw the rock in saltwater unlit for a couple weeks and then test po4.

From everything I’ve seen and everyone I’ve talked to, it seems very common. I’ve talked to several customers who are fighting dinos due to zero phosphate, and the one thing they seem to have in common is the dry rock. I’ve seen a few mentions on here that the dry rock binds up phosphate or something along those lines… I’m not sure on the science behind that, but I’d love to see some sort of testing done to prove this. Any ideas how one would be able to test that theory?

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

From everything I’ve seen and everyone I’ve talked to, it seems very common. I’ve talked to several customers who are fighting dinos due to zero phosphate, and the one thing they seem to have in common is the dry rock. I’ve seen a few mentions on here that the dry rock binds up phosphate or something along those lines… I’m not sure on the science behind that, but I’d love to see some sort of testing done to prove this. Any ideas how one would be able to test that theory?

It's pretty commonly accepted... Browse through Randy's reef chemistry forum.

 

[dwest]

Since you have rocks for several months before the tank arrives, I would certainly put rock in a tub of saltwater and a powerhead. Keep salinity relatively close. I would test phosphates a couple times during the process. If phosphates are very low (close to zero with a Hanna ulr) then I would add some. If it were high (above 0.5 ppm ish), I would likely remove some with GFO or LC. I would probably throw in a piece or two of liverock rubble in also. If there are pods in the rubble, I would feed a little.

Then when your tank is here, you can combine your old rocks and sand with the new stuff and hopefully all will be good.

Good luck. I did something similar a few years ago.

 

[Spare time]

Ugly stage is sorta a myth if you have the right clean up crew and waste management at the start.

 

[TokenReefer]

From everything I’ve seen and everyone I’ve talked to, it seems very common. I’ve talked to several customers who are fighting dinos due to zero phosphate, and the one thing they seem to have in common is the dry rock. I’ve seen a few mentions on here that the dry rock binds up phosphate or something along those lines… I’m not sure on the science behind that, but I’d love to see some sort of testing done to prove this. Any ideas how one would be able to test that theory?

Thread 'Aragonite Sand And Phosphate Adsorption' https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/aragonite-sand-and-phosphate-adsorption.944916/