problem parameter red sea salt pro

homfly · Sep 1, 2017

Hi,
I’m a spanish aquaristic and I have a problem with my new aquarium of 230liter with sump. I began/mounted my aquarium 2 months ago and 2 weeks ago it finished the cycling. I am using red sea salt pro and 3 days ago I tested the aquarium water and parameters were:

KH=4.5 (According to red sea it shall be 12)
Ca= 430 ( This value is ok)
Mg= 1640 ( According to red sea it shall be 1320).
NO2=0 after 50 days
NO3=0 after 50 days

My aquarium only has a dead rock and substrate. My skimmer is bubble magus c7. I don’t have more equipment.

Why my aquarium modify the original salt parameters?

Thanks in advance.

Martin Kuhn · Sep 1, 2017

Hi
- nutrient levels look good for a new tank....seems that you do things right. Measure also PO4 as this is the most important one.
Just be careful that NO3 and PO4 just go "close to 0" and not 0,00, as this will kill your corals !
in case N3/PO4 really is to close to 0 you should already purchase amino acids to be able to feed starving corals

- KH level drops automatically per day in running tanks. 4,5 is a clear indication that you should start dosing. (2/3 part, Balling method, ...)

- Mg >1600 is very questionable. Much too high. If you haven't added any strange materials to your tank or reef ceramics, this is nearly impossible and might indicate that you don't measure correctly.
Measuring correctly is one of the most important things if you care a reef aquarium
My recommendation would be that you buy a "reference solution" ... it is not expensive. This is saltwater with exactly known/defined parameters of salinity, Ca, KH, Mg, N3, PO4 etc.
Measuring this you find out "if and which of your measurements are off" and thus have a chance to train also yourself in measuring correctly.

Ubergroover · Sep 1, 2017

Martin Kuhn said:
Hi
- nutrient levels look good for a new tank....seems that you do things right. Measure also PO4 as this is the most important one.
Just be careful that NO3 and PO4 just go "close to 0" and not 0,00, as this will kill your corals !
in case N3/PO4 really is to close to 0 you should already purchase amino acids to be able to feed starving corals

- KH level drops automatically per day in running tanks. 4,5 is a clear indication that you should start dosing. (2/3 part, Balling method, ...)

- Mg >1600 is very questionable. Much too high. If you haven't added any strange materials to your tank or reef ceramics, this is nearly impossible and might indicate that you don't measure correctly.
Measuring correctly is one of the most important things if you care a reef aquarium
My recommendation would be that you buy a "reference solution" ... it is not expensive. This is saltwater with exactly known/defined parameters of salinity, Ca, KH, Mg, N3, PO4 etc.
Measuring this you find out "if and which of your measurements are off" and thus have a chance to train also yourself in measuring correctly.

+1 on the balling. I use Aquaforest component 1,2 and 3. Works very well. All my parameters are dead on. However test your water first to determine how much you need to add. Never just go by the label. Label for this product says 50mL per 100L. I ended up using 50mL per 300L. But It works great!

Jason mack · Sep 1, 2017

I would check your test for alk , I think maybe it's not a good test ..!! Can you take sample water too lFS too double check for you

DSC reef · Sep 1, 2017

I agree. Coral pro has always been spot on for me and used it from the beginning. I can't see your alk dropping that low in a few days. Reagents go bad. Try testing the water after it's made. Make sure you get the salinity correct with a dependable refractometer and try to get a sample to a LFS as well.

Jason mack · Sep 1, 2017

To be honest a tank so young and you have nothing in there almost , don't think you need a salt with such a high alk unless your gonna fill it up straight away with sps , plus alk so high in a ultra low nutrients isn't good either , I would recommend a salt with less alk for now and you can always change back later when your tank has more corals and is more mature .. just my opion !

madweazl · Sep 1, 2017

Martin Kuhn said:
Hi
- nutrient levels look good for a new tank....seems that you do things right. Measure also PO4 as this is the most important one.
Just be careful that NO3 and PO4 just go "close to 0" and not 0,00, as this will kill your corals !
in case N3/PO4 really is to close to 0 you should already purchase amino acids to be able to feed starving corals

- KH level drops automatically per day in running tanks. 4,5 is a clear indication that you should start dosing. (2/3 part, Balling method, ...)

- Mg >1600 is very questionable. Much too high. If you haven't added any strange materials to your tank or reef ceramics, this is nearly impossible and might indicate that you don't measure correctly.
Measuring correctly is one of the most important things if you care a reef aquarium
My recommendation would be that you buy a "reference solution" ... it is not expensive. This is saltwater with exactly known/defined parameters of salinity, Ca, KH, Mg, N3, PO4 etc.
Measuring this you find out "if and which of your measurements are off" and thus have a chance to train also yourself in measuring correctly.

There is nothing in the tank to consume this much alkalinity. Are you sure the test is reading dKH and not meq/L (4.0=11.2 dKH)?

Randy Holmes-Farley · Sep 1, 2017

Or maybe reading the alk syringe backward?

Which magnesium test? Many people get high readings with the red Sea kit.

homfly · Sep 1, 2017

I did test in tank and then in 50l in prepared water:

Aquarium:
KH=5,6 (tritant used 4ml)
Ca=440
Mg=1600
ph=7,9
Salinity 1025
NO2=0
NO3=0
PO4=0,06 (I have chaetto inside sump)

50l with red sea salt pro:
KH=10,6
Ca=460
Mg=1320
ph=8
Salinity 1024

Test: foundation test red sea

I sill dont understand anything

Randy Holmes-Farley · Sep 1, 2017

The magnesium is not likely as high as you think in the aquarium unless you added it. It doesn't rise on its own without dosing. Don't worry about it.

You must mean 0.4 mL of titrant added? I think it unlikely that the alkalinity is as low as 5.6 dKH (double check again, preferably with a different kit), but it could possibly be, and if it is, dosing alkalinity is the normal and expected thing to do.

nervousmonkey · Sep 2, 2017

Jason mack said:
To be honest a tank so young and you have nothing in there almost , don't think you need a salt with such a high alk unless your gonna fill it up straight away with sps , plus alk so high in a ultra low nutrients isn't good either , I would recommend a salt with less alk for now and you can always change back later when your tank has more corals and is more mature .. just my opion !

I agree 100% with Jason's advice. Without having stony corals that need a calcium carbonate skeletal structure, no need for higher alkalinity level, especially with zero nitrates and probable zero phosphates. Just keep doing what you're doing, test freshly made salt mix before adding to your tank to give you an idea of what the levels are. If you still get values that are really far off from what the levels are supposed to be, then think about switching salts, testing again with another test kit, etc.
When you have a reference from the salt mix, you can then figure out what is consuming your minerals. One of the main reasons why you might see a drop in alkalinity, without any organisms that consume alkalinity, is a rapid increase in nitrates, but that doesn't appear to be the case here. The reverse is also true, rapid decrease in nitrates will increase alkalinity, which doesn't appear here either. In answer to your question about why you have differing values from the manufacturers stated values, is that there are chemical reactions taking place in a tank that can affect the parameters you test for. I do not see that happening in your tank, so I fall back to the answer of testing freshly made saltwater, also making sure to mix your salt very well, as there are inconsistencies in boxes of salt, tubs of salt, etc.
And finally, recommend that you not worry too much about alkalinity levels unless you are adding a lot of organisms that consume alkalinity, such as SPS.

Ubergroover · Sep 2, 2017

out of curiosity whats in the middle section of your sump?

homfly · Sep 3, 2017

Ubergroover said:
out of curiosity whats in the middle section of your sump?

I have a block of marine pure and siporax and then I added chaeto (this picture was made before that)

homfly · Sep 3, 2017

Yesterday I changed 20% of water tank and now my parameter are:

KH=7,6
Ca=420
Mg=1360
Salinity 1024
Po4=0,07
NO2=0
NO3=0

I'm adding KH (foundation red sea B) to keep it in 7-8º.
Finally, next week I'm going to change my salt and I'll use red sea salt instead of salt pro because now I will only include fish and the cleanup crew.

DSC reef · Sep 3, 2017

Have you tried mixing the bucket of salt really well? I see you tested fresh saltwater and 10.6dkh which is still pretty low for RSCP. If you switch to regular blue bucket the alk will read much lower. I'd get a fresh sample to a store and cross check your testing before making changes.

homfly · Sep 3, 2017

DSC reef said:
Have you tried mixing the bucket of salt really well? I see you tested fresh saltwater and 10.6dkh which is still pretty low for RSCP. If you switch to regular blue bucket the alk will read much lower. I'd get a fresh sample to a store and cross check your testing before making changes.

Yes, I mixed the salt cube a couple of times. Actually cube kh is 12 and my reading was 11, maybe I need to mix it one more time. I know that the red sea salt no pro has a lower KH, but now I will not introduce any coral, so to maintain the parameters for fish it would be nice not to use the salt pro.