Problem with low Po4

Antoniocastro · Jul 26, 2019

I have a problem with my corals
I think they are suffering about my low Po4 level.
Everything looks good but sps growing is too slow. My alk always keeps in the same level I’m thinking they are not taking carbonates enough for growing cause the low level Po4.
I have been trying to rinse Po4 with more fish food but it’s not working.
I have stopped the gfo.
I had Chaeto in a sump and has died!
Levels
Ca 450ppm
Mg 1380ppm
Kh 9.5 dkh
No3 3-4ppm
Po4 0ppm
I would like to add Po4 from a cleanest source!
I wouldn’t add something else cause I just want to increase Po4 only. No No3.
What do you think?
Thank you

UCF Alum · Jul 26, 2019

@Randy Holmes-Farley
+1 on this. I was here to post the same question.

My nitrates are 20 and phosphates are 0. Recently I’ve noticed bleaching on 2 acro frags. I’ve been dosing NeoPhos with no luck. Appears the problem has only gotten worse. Hanna checker showing 0. This has been a slow progression of some frags looking unhealthy. ICP test came back showing .01 for phosphorus, which I believe when doing the math equals .03 phosphates. I don’t believe this is a correct number by the looks of the coral. I too have stopped the GFO a month ago. I have a sump full of chaeto.
Thoughts on zero phosphates? I know the MOA on Hanna is about .04 +/-

AngryMike2016 · Jul 26, 2019

Seachem flourish phosphorous. Intended for planted freshwater tanks, but works in reef tanks. That's how I managed to raise my po4.

AngryMike2016 · Jul 26, 2019

It won't instantly raise your phosphates, you have to dose it slowly for a few weeks.

Antoniocastro · Jul 27, 2019

Thank you for your advice about flourish phosphorus.
But
Could you explain me how do you add to your tank?
And what is the Po4 level that you have now?
Thank you

AngryMike2016 · Jul 27, 2019

Uh... you pour it into the water? The dosing is explained on the bottle. My PO4 is about .08.

ZaneTer · Jul 28, 2019

A few things from someone experienced with PO4 dosing.

1) Low PO4 doesn’t normally present itself as pale or bleached corals. It shows as a lack of growth or the inability to repair.

2) It could take a long time to bring up the phosphate level and I recommend dosing 0.1ppm every 6 hours. If you have aragonite or dolomite media then it’s going to take you a VERY long time before you register around 0.03ppm

3) I recommend trisodium phosphate.

4) You are going to get algae growth. It’s unavoidable and it’s actually a good sign.

5) Watch your nitrates. They may plummet.

6) Watch your dkh. It may plummet.

7) I try to maintain 0.10-0.20ppm

Antoniocastro · Jul 28, 2019

Ok
Thank you.

dlegare · Jul 28, 2019

Antoniocastro said:
Thank you for your advice about flourish phosphorus.
But
Could you explain me how do you add to your tank?
And what is the Po4 level that you have now?
Thank you

There is a formula on the bottle that shows how much Flourish phosphorus to add to achieve the desired phosphate level.

Dose conservatively

IslandLifeReef · Jul 28, 2019

Antoniocastro said:
Ok
Thank you.

Before you start dosing anything, what are you using to measure PO4? How long ago did you remove the GFO?

Small, slow changes over time are best for tank stability. Unless you are seeing things starting to RTN/STN, I wouldn't dose anything until you give the GFO removal a chance.

Bpb · Jul 28, 2019

What a day and age we live in for this hobby.

“Beware of pukani rock, or any dry rock, and acid wash it, it’ll be loaded with phosphate and take a year to get rid of”

“You’ll want to dose a lot over a long period of time in order to slowly saturate your rock and sand with phosphate”.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jul 28, 2019

If you want to raise phosphate and not nitrate, and are not using phosphate binders like GFO, then I'd recommend dosing something like this:

Amazon.com: Monosodium Phosphate (4 oz.) by Pure Organic Ingredients, Food Grade, Thickener and Emulsifier : Grocery & Gourmet Food

Buy Monosodium Phosphate (4 oz.) by Pure Organic Ingredients, Food Grade, Thickener and Emulsifier: Thickeners - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

IslandLifeReef · Jul 28, 2019

UCF Alum said:
@Randy Holmes-Farley
+1 on this. I was here to post the same question.

My nitrates are 20 and phosphates are 0. Recently I’ve noticed bleaching on 2 acro frags. I’ve been dosing NeoPhos with no luck. Appears the problem has only gotten worse. Hanna checker showing 0. This has been a slow progression of some frags looking unhealthy. ICP test came back showing .01 for phosphorus, which I believe when doing the math equals .03 phosphates. I don’t believe this is a correct number by the looks of the coral. I too have stopped the GFO a month ago. I have a sump full of chaeto.
Thoughts on zero phosphates? I know the MOA on Hanna is about .04 +/-

@UCF Alum, it sounds like you are using the Hanna LR PO4 checker which could give you a 0 ppm reading on PO4 when in fact, you have enough PO4. I would recommend using the ULR checker which is much more sensitive. I would also trust the ICP result unless you have other verifiable proof that it is incorrect. I wouldn't say you could tell PO4 is low by the looks of your corals. There are numerous things that can cause corals to not look their best.

In order to really help you with your acro frags, we need more information on your system.

UCF Alum · Jul 28, 2019

IslandLifeReef said:
@UCF Alum
In order to really help you with your acro frags, we need more information on your system.

175 gal
No3 20ish
Po4 0
Alk 8
Cal 425
Mag 1130
Ph 7.9-8.1
SR 8ish
Alk and cal are rock steady.
All ICP numbers came back in check except Aluminum. It was slightly elevated as I had put in a nitrate brick to reduce No3. I removed it last week because of this. I run 3 XR 30 Pro’s on SPS AB+ schedule ramp up ramp down - photo period is 10 hours. I also added T5 hybrid fixture last month and started at 2 hours a day. It was up to 4 per day but I’ve recently lowered the radions to 55% and T5’s to 1.5 hours per day. Several acros have no PE and look weak. Others are growing like weeds.
Two MP40s at 100% and a maxspect gyre at 50%.
I just put seachem po4 in my doser and will dose 8 mils per day (1 mil every three hours). Flow is not an issue and no frags are getting blasted directly. They’ve been doing fine the last 3 months up until about 3 weeks ago.

PO’d here in FL.

UCF Alum · Jul 28, 2019

Sorry @Antoniocastro not trying to jack your thread sir.

UCF Alum · Jul 28, 2019

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
If you want to raise phosphate and not nitrate, and are not using phosphate binders like GFO, then I'd recommend dosing something like this:

Amazon.com: Monosodium Phosphate (4 oz.) by Pure Organic Ingredients, Food Grade, Thickener and Emulsifier : Grocery & Gourmet Food

Buy Monosodium Phosphate (4 oz.) by Pure Organic Ingredients, Food Grade, Thickener and Emulsifier: Thickeners - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

How much of that would I use in a 175gal with 0 pO4 to bring to .03?
Thanks @Randy Holmes-Farley

IslandLifeReef · Jul 29, 2019

UCF Alum said:
175 gal
No3 20ish
Po4 0
Alk 8
Cal 425
Mag 1130
Ph 7.9-8.1
SR 8ish
Alk and cal are rock steady.
All ICP numbers came back in check except Aluminum. It was slightly elevated as I had put in a nitrate brick to reduce No3. I removed it last week because of this. I run 3 XR 30 Pro’s on SPS AB+ schedule ramp up ramp down - photo period is 10 hours. I also added T5 hybrid fixture last month and started at 2 hours a day. It was up to 4 per day but I’ve recently lowered the radions to 55% and T5’s to 1.5 hours per day. Several acros have no PE and look weak. Others are growing like weeds.
Two MP40s at 100% and a maxspect gyre at 50%.
I just put seachem po4 in my doser and will dose 8 mils per day (1 mil every three hours). Flow is not an issue and no frags are getting blasted directly. They’ve been doing fine the last 3 months up until about 3 weeks ago.

PO’d here in FL.

Ok, I would wait on the PO4 dosing until you get the ULR checker. If your PO4 is 0.03, it is high enough. The fact that some are doing fine and also that you haven't mentioned a problem with chaeto makes me believe that PO4 isn't your problem. I would trust the ICP test over your LR Hanna checker.

Looking at your numbers, one thing stands out. Your Mag is really low. It should be closer to 1400. If you are going to dose anything, I would start dosing Mag to bring that number up.

Have you checked the acro's that are looking weak for pests? Again, if you have acro's that are growing like weeds, I doubt you have a PO4 issue. It has to be something more isolated to the affected frags.

UCF Alum · Jul 29, 2019

IslandLifeReef said:
Ok, I would wait on the PO4 dosing until you get the ULR checker. If your PO4 is 0.03, it is high enough. The fact that some are doing fine and also that you haven't mentioned a problem with chaeto makes me believe that PO4 isn't your problem. I would trust the ICP test over your LR Hanna checker.

Looking at your numbers, one thing stands out. Your Mag is really low. It should be closer to 1400. If you are going to dose anything, I would start dosing Mag to bring that number up.

Have you checked the acro's that are looking weak for pests? Again, if you have acro's that are growing like weeds, I doubt you have a PO4 issue. It has to be something more isolated to the affected frags.

Sorry typo. Mag is 1300.
No pests, I’ve looked. I have noticed that I now have digitate hydroids, which is a whole other problem/thread in itself. Moved some frags around to escape them.