Pukani Rock and Phosphates

[wpeterson]

I think you're likely to get a nutrient spike in terms of phosphate in most new reef tanks, whether or not you go to great lengths to cure/acid wash your dry live rocks.

I would just accept it and run a media reactor with GFO or another phosphate binding material from day 0. You can measure and tune this as you go.

I fear the issues with nutrient export many new tanks have are driven by this - not enough nutrient uptake from coral/livestock early on, combined with die-off/leaching from rock/sand. People upgrade they're nutrient export over time/delayed to the tank. This initial phase wears off and the sand/rock comes to nutrient equilibrium but now they have too much export/GFO for these things and strip their tank out.

There's no replacement for testing and matching your export/husbandry to match nutrient levels. Curing/acid washing rock doesn't completely solve this. I'd vote just plan for export, monitor and expect to ramp it down when your system hits equilibrium in 6-9 months.

 

[HolisticBear]

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[HolisticBear]

I'm going thru the cure/cycle of 20lbs of Dry Pukani from BRS myself. There are a slew of threads about the process. I soaked the rock in bleach for 24 hours, then a vinegar solution for a few days. It's currently in a saltwater bucket with powerhead + heater. Phosphates read very high the first week, just did a 100% water change. Living in a condo, muratic wasn't an option, so I did vinegar. I will start using Lanthanum Chloride (SeaKlear phosphate removal) this week.

I've read too many stories similar to @NanoDJS to attempt curing it in the tank. It's mostly a function of time and piece of mind, but I want to be confident the rock I use is good. A few weeks in a bucket with Lanthanum Chloride after my previous steps is probably sufficient.

There is also a decent amount of variability with the rock. The muratic acid will dissolve some of your rock, but we're talking a 10-20 minute dip. Not longer. You'll find lots of YouTube videos on the topic.

 

[Finatik]

Thanks Everybody ! Great Info !

 

[Tautog]

I just finished curing a shelf rock from BRS, 6 weeks.
As the water soaks the rock, the dried stuff swells, and is easy to pick off.
Change the water every 2 weeks, use the water from your display during a WC. Within 2 weeks, life settled in the new rock.

 

[jeffrey holloway]

I used the muric acid bath on about 160lbs of the pukani dry rock. I put it in the DT for 2 months of cycling adding microbacter 7, GFO, and weekly water changes. Phosphates cleared up totally in about six weeks. Love the rock no regrets.

 

[becks]

You could always try carribsea life rock, apparently it don't leach nothing and its pest free

 

[HolisticBear]

You could always try carribsea life rock, apparently it don't leach nothing and its pest free

To @becks point, there is dry rock and then their is pukani dry rock. Initially, I wondered if pukani was worth all the prep work. However, you can do all the prep work in parallel with setting up your DT.

 

[becks]

I used pukani, I bathed in bleach water for 48hrs then hosed it down and left to dry...when I started to cycle the tank I kept a lot of rowaphos in the tank and I ever had a problem with hair algae etc.

I love the rock because it offers so much little crevices for pods etc and holes for fish to sleep in is unreal, my tanks copepod and amphipod population is insane even with a scooter Blenny, peacock wrasse and two other wrasses.

The only thing I'm not keen on is it looks plain and I've not been able to grow coralline but I think that was down to my Chinese led lights not being very good...but I'm getting a maxspect 180w 15k so hopefully that changes.

 

[Finatik]

You could always try carribsea life rock, apparently it don't leach nothing and its pest free

Carribsea is dry rock that they have sort of painted or dipped in bacteria that gets activated once it's wet right ? I need to research more about the success of using this type of rock and whether or not it really works to seed the tank with bacteria, because this rock is kind of expensive. I don't mind paying extra if it really works, but I'd like to hear more from others who have used it as to what their experience with it was.

 

[Finatik]

I wondered if pukani was worth all the prep work. However, you can do all the prep work in parallel with setting up your DT.

So you would soak it in a separate container while your DT was cycling? When you finally add it to the DT, won't that cause another cycle to start with so much organic material encrusted in these rocks ?

When considering this Pukani rock, I had NO IDEA that it would require all of this pre-soaking and cleaning before I could even use it ! It sounds like a lot of extra work !

 

[HolisticBear]

So you would soak it in a separate container while your DT was cycling? When you finally add it to the DT, won't that cause another cycle to start with so much organic material encrusted in these rocks ?

When considering this Pukani rock, I had NO IDEA that it would require all of this pre-soaking and cleaning before I could even use it ! It sounds like a lot of extra work !

My goal is to get ride of all the phosphates from the rock before starting the 'official' cycle. You're right that the rock is partially cycling now and I will go thru another mini cycle when I finally add the rock to the tank with sand.

1. The "official" cycle before you add your first fish in a new tank might be two weeks, maybe less, especially if you use starter bacteria. While the rock may leak phosphates for 4-12 weeks. Your tank will continue to mature over months, but you can add that first clownfish pretty quickly.
2. You could do everything in your aquarium and just accept it's gonna be "ugly" for potentially a few months. However, It's easier on me mentally to minimize the amount of time my tank is ugly, and prep the rock in the garage. That frustration @NanoDJS referred to when people are "fighting" their rock, blaming it, or just using it as excuse for ~6months; I want to avoid that.

Both work, partially style. When the rock reads 0.0 phosphate in the bucket/trash can, I'll start my tank. The upside of the bucket include a) smell outside the house b) in darkness is good c) not taking up space d) arrange/leaktest/test all your equipment in the DT d) easy water change

If you want to start the tank sooner, you could sell the Pukani and start with Reef Saver or Project Reef Rock 2.1 from BRS. In some of the BRS videos where they use Pukani, they mention they've had it in a trashcan for ~3 months. You'll need to wash the other rock before putting in your tank, but you likely won't complain about phosphate levels for 3 months. Or you can just put the pukani in your tank now, go, and just accept you may be managing a phosphate problem for awhile.

Since there is variability in the rock, you might get lucky. It heavily depends on your mental health and stamina for dealing with algae issues

 

[jaws789832]

I acid washed mine as well in muratic acid. I used a 20 gallon water to 1 gallon of acid ratio. It does melt the rock a bit but to no adverse affects to the looks. I then soaked it for about a month in heated saltwater and used some bacteria in a bottle during part of that time. When I added it to the tank my cycle only took about a week and a half and I never had any phosphate issues. I used the dead shrimp method to cycle and just left the shrimp in the tank until it was gone. There are a lot of dead sponges and whatnots on the rock when you get it so whatever method you use I would recommend not just adding it to the tank. Either let it soak to cure for a long period of time or acid wash it. With the amount of debris on it I think if you didn't do anything and just added it to the tank you will have problems for a long time to come.

 

[Finatik]

OK... I'm going to go ahead and order some Pukani Rock today. Need to find a container I can soak it in IN THE GARAGE !!! (Don't want that smell in the house). I will fill the container with just water and put a couple of pumps in there to create some flow and just leave it for 2 or 3 weeks.
* Is it OK if it is exposed to low (cold) temperatures in the garage ? It is still winter, and the garage gets a little chilly at night.

 

[HolisticBear]

Is it OK if it is exposed to low (cold) temperatures in the garage ? It is still winter, and the garage gets a little chilly at night.

On that I would defer to someone else. I was watching this video on killing pests on live rock and he mentioned 65+ degrees was fine. Remember the powerhead will add some heat to your covered bucket or brute trashcan. If you think it might get colder than that, throw a heater in there.

 

[jhatfield]

* Is it OK if it is exposed to low (cold) temperatures in the garage ? It is still winter, and the garage gets a little chilly at night.

I'm guessing cold will slow down the process somewhat but nothing major.

 

[Midrats]

I ordered some Caribsea Life Rock and it arrived totally busted up into pieces. Had it not arrived broken up I still wouldn't have used it because it looked really phony. I just received some live Pukani from Tampa Bay Saltwater and must say it's the nicest live rock I've seen since the Walt Smith Fiji of the '90s. There's no aiptasia or other common Indo Pacific pests in the Gulf of Mexico. I got a couple of crabs I didn't want but they were easy to take care of.

 

[rwells576]

Use Lanthanum Cloride until phospates read zero then soak in RODI water

 

[Ocelaris]

I still don't understand why people recommend acid. You really want bleach to oxidize the organics, and then maybe a little acid to clean any gunk stuck on the outside of the rocks. But IMO it's ineffective to start with acid. The nitrogen and phosphates are coming from the critters deep within the rock, and the most effective way to remove them is bleach, rinse, and maybe acid. But really I personally don't see a compelling case for acid at all, it's not like you've precipitated calcium phosphates, anyways the bleach will cause those organic to settle out instead of attach to the rocks.

I just cycled my Pukani in big tubs with salt water, regular temps and water movement, switched water after a few days, then a week, then put it in the tank and was good to go. I'm not convinced after a month or two there is any significant leaching, but certainly bleach would be more effective first.

 

[johnthehermit]

I used pukani. A 24 hour bleach soak dissolved a lot of organic material. I rinsed it well and then let it dry for a couple of days outside. I then did a 20 minute dip in diluted hydrochloric acid, 1 part acid to 10 water, and afterwards soaked it in RO with phosguard and regular water changes for several weeks. Instead of hydrochloric acid (muriatic acid) some people now use citric acid. It's more controllable, safer and easily obtained. If soaking in hydrochloric you need to lift the rock out every couple of minutes. some of the more porous pieces can disappear before your very eyes.
John