Pump efficiency discussion

[newfly]

I noticed that different pump efficiency can varies significantly. this is interesting purely for the sake of academic discussion. The end of the day, the different in watts translate to pennies a day and not worth to spend 2-3X more for the 'better' pump. One could argue that the lower wattage generate less heat. I can agree with that.

Anyhow, here are 3 brand name pump for the discussion. I choose 3 pumps ( AC and DC) rated at ~1000gph at 0 headloss for the comparison. I include the manufacture spec on gph , watts and the approximate market price

Sicce Syncra Silent 4.0 AC (951gph) 80W $170
RO Varios 4 DC (1050gph) 40W $285
Red Dragon 5 DC ( 1056gph) 25W $355


I am taking the spec as face value since all 3 are reputable brand name and their pump are highly rated.

Red Dragon pump cost 2X more than the Sicce, but uses ~1/3 of the power. I just find this interesting. I did not expect the gap to be this big even if its AC versus DC. Also, the Red Dragon uses almost 40% less power than comparable DC pump from RO.

Is this marketing gimmick or Red Dragon have better technology in there DC motor and controller?

What am i missing in this comparison?

This is very similar to comparing Tesla efficiency versus other EV manufacturer, but that's another forum. I have both tesla and VW e-golf. The efficiency btw the 2 cars is very similar to the pump comparison above.

 

[Doctorgori]

are you factoring in longevity, quality or replacement cycle?” seems relevant

 

[newfly]

are you factoring in longevity, quality or replacement cycle?” seems relevant

No. I'm just curious about efficiency.

AC pump is going to last longer than DC in general. As for RO versus RD, i have no basis to compare .

 

[Doctorgori]

No. I'm just curious about efficiency.

AC pump is going to last longer than DC in general. As for RO versus RD, i have no basis to compare .

yeah i saw the prices in your table and figured cost had relevance... anyway i’m no engineer but i’ve always wondered about electrical efficiency also. Vivosun has either copied or is copying a sorta sump pump design that alleges 800 gph, I forget the wattage but its low and so is the price: < $25
It would be nice to see pumps rated at gallons per “operational dollar” at a fixed head pressure; kinda like that sticker you get on appliances

 

[DCR]

You cannot just use the end of curve zero head rated flows. That would be the equivalent of looking at fuel efficiency of an automobile on the Bonneville Salt flats at full pedal to the metal speed and then using that to compare around town driving. You have to also consider the lower flows and typical heads you will be operating your pump

DC pumps are more efficient at high flow and low head conditions (commonly found in home aquariums) because they use a lower speed with larger diameter impeller, which is more efficient for that application. In a low flow high head application like a low flow basement sump, a properly sized AC pump is going to be more efficient because high speeds are more efficient for high heads. There is too much internal recirculation (inefficiency) in a large volume DC pump when pushing high heads It really has nothing to do with whether it is AC or DC. It is all about matching the pump to the application. You can build lower speed AC pumps can they would compare favorably with a DC pump, but they are costly and you only see them in very large capacity pumps.

 

[jda]

In the end, you are going to spend the same wattage to do almost the same thing, unless you can go low wattage DC flow pumps with nearly no head loss. This works fine for undertank stands and stuff, but not so much in other places.

If you have much head pressure at all, then there will not be any gains unless you just seriously oversized your pump. With any kinds of head pressure at all, then AC is probably your best bet unless you just want to spend way more on an Abyzz, but it seems that you can do math and know that you won't likely live long enough to see the savings.

...so a lot of this depends on your actual application and head pressure.

 

[newfly]

In the end, you are going to spend the same wattage to do almost the same thing, unless you can go low wattage DC flow pumps with nearly no head loss. This works fine for undertank stands and stuff, but not so much in other places.

If you have much head pressure at all, then there will not be any gains unless you just seriously oversized your pump. With any kinds of head pressure at all, then AC is probably your best bet unless you just want to spend way more on an Abyzz, but it seems that you can do math and know that you won't likely live long enough to see the savings.

...so a lot of this depends on your actual application and head pressure.

I'm looking for a return pump for AIO build, Looks like DC pump works well for this application ( min head loss).

 

[Tomlagoon]

Closed impellers are most efficient

 

[ksed]

The Abyzz pumps appear to have higher head pressure than most Iwaki sold at BRS for a fraction of the wattage. That being said they are very pricey. Might be a consideration depending on where you live and hydro rates.

 

[newfly]

Closed impellers are most efficient

Can you explain what is closed impellers pump? Any examples?

 

[newfly]

The Abyzz pumps appear to have higher head pressure than most Iwaki sold at BRS for a fraction of the wattage. That being said they are very pricey. Might be a consideration depending on where you live and hydro rates.

Wow, i thought the red dragon is expensive. The abyzz is different class all together

 

[92Miata]

If you're running an AIO - pretty much any DC pump that will physically fit the return section is a good choice. I run jebao dcp2500s in my Nuvo 40s. They make a 1200 size if you're running a really small AIO.

Most of the issues people have with flow and DC pumps isn't really about height, or dc pumps not being able to handle pressure - its about people running plumbing that is way too small to handle the amount of water they're trying to move. Dynamic head pressure is about friction, and long runs of small piping create huge amounts of friction. Sometimes the needed piping is significantly larger than the output of the pump.

 

[newfly]

If you're running an AIO - pretty much any DC pump that will physically fit the return section is a good choice. I run jebao dcp2500s in my Nuvo 40s. They make a 1200 size if you're running a really small AIO.

Most of the issues people have with flow and DC pumps isn't really about height, or dc pumps not being able to handle pressure - its about people running plumbing that is way too small to handle the amount of water they're trying to move. Dynamic head pressure is about friction, and long runs of small piping create huge amounts of friction. Sometimes the needed piping is significantly larger than the output of the pump.

Its a waterbox 65.4. it should be able to fit a good selection of pumps.

 

[ksed]

If you're running an AIO - pretty much any DC pump that will physically fit the return section is a good choice. I run jebao dcp2500s in my Nuvo 40s. They make a 1200 size if you're running a really small AIO.

Most of the issues people have with flow and DC pumps isn't really about height, or dc pumps not being able to handle pressure - its about people running plumbing that is way too small to handle the amount of water they're trying to move. Dynamic head pressure is about friction, and long runs of small piping create huge amounts of friction. Sometimes the needed piping is significantly larger than the output of the pump.

Well said. Many use wrong plumbing size.

 

[Tomlagoon]

Can you explain what is closed impellers pump?
The impellers have back and front walls around the vanes. Good for clean low viscosity fluids.