Purchasing custom tank - TEMPERED OR NON-TEMPERED??

[Potatohead]

That’s funny because Modular Marine is recommending nothing less than their 3600 model for my size tank.

Yeah I mean a lot of people are still stuck on the fact they think you need ten times turnover, you don't. It's a waste of money and power. 4-5 times is good and some people even run less than that.

 

[JoshH]

That’s funny because Modular Marine is recommending nothing less than their 3600 model for my size tank.

If you do a little digging around you will find quite a few issues with the Shadow at those flow rates. And with what's been documented and shown I would never ever purchase one. But that's me and there are plenty of happy shadow owners.

I do agree with @Potatohead on you will probably only need around 1000gph running through your sump. But really it's all personal preference there and what filtration method you're planning on implementing.

 

[Potatohead]

If you do a little digging around you will find quite a few issues with the Shadow at those flow rates. And with what's been documented and shown I would never ever purchase one. But that's me and there are plenty of happy shadow owners.

I do agree with @Potatohead on you will probably only need around 1000gph running through your sump. But really it's all personal preference there and what filtration method you're planning on implementing.

Problems around 1000 gph or 2500?

 

[JoshH]

Problems around 1000 gph or 2500?

Now having never owned one I can't speak for personal experience and I'm just going off of other members who were extremely unhappy with there shadows but I believe at around 800GPH is where it all starts to go down hill. All related to noise and salt creep issues. The overflow technically does function at the higher GPH 1500+ rates.

And no I don't want to turn this thread into a synergy bashing thread, I'm just trying to make the OP aware of issues some others are having at the flow rates he wants

 

[Tuffloud1]

I’ve heard that because the Shadow has the wet side higher than the exterior box, it is more noisy and prone to overflowing.

The Modular has the wet side mounted at the same height as the exterior box which eliminates both issues with the Shadow - from what I’ve read.

 

[JoshH]

I’ve heard that because the Shadow has the wet side higher than the exterior box, it is more noisy and prone to overflowing.

The Modular has the wet side mounted at the same height as the exterior box which eliminates both issues with the Shadow - from what I’ve read.

This is exactly the issue with the Shadow and synergy outright refuses to change the design or even admit the flaw and thread after thread they blame the user for improper installation. Virtually every other overflow manufacturer has the external box at the same height or very close to it and not just MM.

 

[Potatohead]

Weird. I would never think an overflow should ever make noise at a "too low" flow rate, that seems like poor design, or the person doesn't have it set up right. I mean if they are properly designed the part in the tank should be almost full of water with maybe 1" cascade down, and then of course it will self-level to the external overflow. You can easily control the height of the water in the overflow by the height of the stand pipe on your trickle drain (second pipe in a beananimal).

 

[Potatohead]

I see what they're saying about the Shadow, the Eshopps is the same. Not as good a design as the MM IMO. I'm sure it can be made to work but it would be nice to not have to monkey with it.

If it was me I would go with MM 1800 or use the regular CA one if you go that route for the tank. That design seems fine too.

 

[JoshH]

Weird. I would never think an overflow should ever make noise at a "too low" flow rate, that seems like poor design, or the person doesn't have it set up right. I mean if they are properly designed the part in the tank should be almost full of water with maybe 1" cascade down, and then of course it will self-level to the external overflow. You can easily control the height of the water in the overflow by the height of the stand pipe on your trickle drain (second pipe in a beananimal).

Edit - You figured it out

 

[Wagonpitt]

+1 modular marine

 

[Tuffloud1]

Modular is saying that theirs will work with a Custom Aquariums top frame, but the exterior needs spacers to clear the frame. They do include the spacers.

I’m trying to figure out what exactly this means and if I should have them custom make one to avoid having to use spacers?

As far as gph, my thought was to oversize the overflow and tone way back as to not limit myself if I ever wanted way more flow. But I guess why would I ever need that much flow going through the sump?

 

[Tuffloud1]

Modular is recommending 10x flow rate in addition to 1.5 - 2 times the expected flow rate.

 

[Potatohead]

The only system that asks for ten times flow rate through the sump is Triton. There are also a lot of guys that run Triton that don't run 10x turnover. As long as you can oxygenate and heat the water sufficiently that's all you really need. The difference between a 1500 gph and 3000 gph pump in noise and electricity use is also pretty substantial.

 

[JoshH]

Modular is saying that theirs will work with a Custom Aquariums top frame, but the exterior needs spacers to clear the frame. They do include the spacers.

I’m trying to figure out what exactly this means and if I should have them custom make one to avoid having to use spacers?

As far as gph, my thought was to oversize the overflow and tone way back as to not limit myself if I ever wanted way more flow. But I guess why would I ever need that much flow going through the sump?

My guess is they are referring to a plastic framed tank. And the spacers go between the tank and the exterior box to provide enough clearance for the overflow to be mounted as high as possible.

 

[Potatohead]

My guess is they are referring to a plastic framed tank. And the spacers go between the tank and the exterior box to provide enough clearance for the overflow to be mounted as high as possible.

I think they designed the overflow for a regular plastic frame but the CA uses a beefier aluminum frame. Spacers would be no problem as long as the tubes joining the internal and external boxes are sufficiently long enough.

 

[Tuffloud1]

Am I looking at this correctly?

From what I see, the bulkhead goes through the glass tank hole, then through the exterior box. The nut gets tightened inside the box.

The entire skimmer box is then pressure fitted into the bulkhead for east removal and cleaning?

 

[Potatohead]

Am I looking at this correctly?

From what I see, the bulkhead goes through the glass tank hole, then through the exterior box. The nut gets tightened inside the box.

The entire skimmer box is then pressure fitted into the bulkhead for east removal and cleaning?

Correct

 

[Tuffloud1]

Correct

Okay so this is a way better design than the Synergy.

You can just take the skimmer box off and clean behind it and the box itself.

Does Modular Marine have a phone number?

I was emailing back and forth and it would be a lot easier to speak on the phone. I asked for a phone number but haven’t received a response since.

 

[Potatohead]

Okay so this is a way better design than the Synergy.

You can just take the skimmer box off and clean behind it and the box itself.

Does Modular Marine have a phone number?

I was emailing back and forth and it would be a lot easier to speak on the phone. I asked for a phone number but haven’t received a response since.

I don't know about the number

I guess my only concern would be what happens when you remove the inside box/weir, the water above the external overflow level will want to go into the external overflow. I'm not sure if it would still go down the normal drain or if it would go down the emergency drain, but as long as you set it up right all this water would end up in the sump either way.

Edit - I guess if your return pump was off it wouldn't matter because the level in the display will go down a bit.

 

[JoshH]

I don't know about the number

I guess my only concern would be what happens when you remove the inside box/weir, the water above the external overflow level will want to go into the external overflow. I'm not sure if it would still go down the normal drain or if it would go down the emergency drain, but as long as you set it up right all this water would end up in the sump either way.

Edit - I guess if your return pump was off it wouldn't matter because the level in the display will go down a bit.

This would all greatly depend on the height of the plumbing in the box. If it's setup with only a 1/2-1" drop over the weir when the internal box is removed the water level in the exterior box will simply equalize with the DT height. As long as the height of the external box is higher than the water in the DT the drain will continue to function as normal with the pump running.

Turning off the return pump while removing the weir however could cause a serious problem. When you shut the return pump off and the weir is installed the water will drain to the lowest point of the wier. When the weir is removed the DT will then drain until it reaches the point of either the top of the Main siphon or the bottom of the overflow bulkheads. Hopefully the former as if the siphon is just an open bulkhead in the bottom of the external box as some are. The DT will drain to the lowest point of the bulkheads in the tank and this could be 2-4" of volume out of the DT which could quite possibly overflow the sump if this scenario isn't thought of in the initial sump setup.