Purple Tang with Ich

[John Wassman]

I purchased a purple tang from my LFS on Saturday 4/14. Brought him home and acclimated him to my QT using a drip acclimation method. I have never used this QT before as I had set it up in September and I have not purchased fish since then (important because I believe the tank was ich free being sterile for so long). He seems shy and hid a bunch for the first few days.

On Monday morning I noticed my ammonia was about .25 ppm. I changed the carbon filter and placed a piece of rock from my DT into the QT to try and see if I could bring it down on Monday morning.

Monday afternoon the ammonia was down to zero though my tang had ich dots. I immediately ordered over night some cupramine. I had some kordon Rid Ich on hand so I dosed that with a half the recommended dosing. I have been adding less then the recommended dosing every six hours since.

This afternoon I went home to feed the fish and noticed no more ich dots on the tang. He seems much less shy and is eating like a pig. Great!!. My questions for the group mind:

1. Should I still dose the cupramine?
2. Should I continue the use the rid ich for 4 more days as the directions instruct?
3. Say everything is fine at the end of this week, should I wait 4 additional weeks (QT period) to add the little guy to the DT? or longer?

 

[deedubz]

I have zero experience with rid ich, so I can't advise there. Did you by chance get a pic of the dots?

If this is ich, you're going to want to treat in cupramine for 30 days.

 

[Big G]

So here's the current state of affairs. Lots of suppliers and LFS are dosing their tanks with sub therapeutic levels of copper to suppress ich/velvet yet keep them looking good for sale as therapeutic levels can make the fish look less desirable. So you bring home your fish, and in a few days or up to 30 days or so, the ich/velvet comes roaring back. Many times without showing the normal symptoms. By the time you actually see symptoms, it can be too late to save the fish. Velvet is rampant in the industry. That being said, many would advise prophylactically treating with copper. I lost a whole tank of fish a few months back in a QT to velvet. Not a good thing. Since then, I prophylactically treat with copper immediately and have had great results and healthy fish. Hope this helps a bit.

 

[John Wassman]

I have zero experience with rid ich, so I can't advise there. Did you by chance get a pic of the dots?

If this is ich, you're going to want to treat in cupramine for 30 days.

No sorry I didn't take a picture but I have had some experience with ich. (none that I liked). I am getting better and I have a QT specifically for this reason now. I am fairly sure the white dots on his fins and body are ich as they look like a dusting of sugar. It started on his fins and outer body and moved inward. I am hoping that he is just getting better since the tank parameters seem good. I will dose the cupramine then. After 30 days is he gtg? or do I need to wait some more after I stop the copper treatment?

 

[John Wassman]

So here's the current state of affairs. Lots of suppliers and LFS are dosing their tanks with sub therapeutic levels of copper to suppress ich/velvet yet keep them looking good for sale as therapeutic levels can make the fish look less desirable. So you bring home your fish, and in a few days or up to 30 days or so, the ich/velvet comes roaring back. Many times without showing the normal symptoms. By the time you actually see symptoms, it can be too late to save the fish. Velvet is rampant in the industry. That being said, many would advise prophylactically treating with copper. I lost a whole tank of fish a few months back in a QT to velvet. Not a good thing. Since then, I prophylactically treat with copper immediately and have had great results and healthy fish. Hope this helps a bit.

This is good information, I would like to see a fish store that stores there fish in a medicated tank for at least 30 days. At least you could be confident that you are getting a healthy fish. I, for one would be willing to pay 20% more to know this. I am going to treat the QT with copper tonight. Thanks for the advice.

 

[deedubz]

No sorry I didn't take a picture but I have had some experience with ich. (none that I liked). I am getting better and I have a QT specifically for this reason now. I am fairly sure the white dots on his fins and body are ich as they look like a dusting of sugar. It started on his fins and outer body and moved inward. I am hoping that he is just getting better since the tank parameters seem good. I will dose the cupramine then. After 30 days is he gtg? or do I need to wait some more after I stop the copper treatment?

Were you able to count the dots, or was it an overwhelming number? The latter would be indicitive of velvet. Treatment would still be copper for 30 days. Personally, I'd treat for the 30 days then observe another couple weeks just to be safe.

If you haven't already found the thread, @HotRocks has been doing a lot of experimenting with Hanna's high range copper checker. It's as close to 100% accurate as it gets. It prompted BRS and HANNA themselves to do their own testing and it appears they're coming to the same conclusion. I myself have it and am completely satisfied with it too. It's a bit pricey and, at the moment, on backorder, but it's a worthwhile investment since you've started qting your fish. Also, since you brought up pre-quarantined fish, @Humblefish is in the finishing touches of setting up his pre-quarantined fish business. Given he's the resident disease expert, I trust that he'll have great success. Something to think about for your next batch of fish

 

[deedubz]

Here's the link to the coppersafe and Hanna checker thread
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/c...instruments-high-range-copper-checker.368943/

 

[HotRocks]

This is good information, I would like to see a fish store that stores there fish in a medicated tank for at least 30 days. At least you could be confident that you are getting a healthy fish. I, for one would be willing to pay 20% more to know this. I am going to treat the QT with copper tonight. Thanks for the advice.

@Humblefish is working on this. He has to started his own business and will be selling fish that are disease free. I am not sure exactly when he will be ready to start selling. It's definitely in the works!

 

[HotRocks]

I purchased a purple tang from my LFS on Saturday 4/14. Brought him home and acclimated him to my QT using a drip acclimation method. I have never used this QT before as I had set it up in September and I have not purchased fish since then (important because I believe the tank was ich free being sterile for so long). He seems shy and hid a bunch for the first few days.

On Monday morning I noticed my ammonia was about .25 ppm. I changed the carbon filter and placed a piece of rock from my DT into the QT to try and see if I could bring it down on Monday morning.

Monday afternoon the ammonia was down to zero though my tang had ich dots. I immediately ordered over night some cupramine. I had some kordon Rid Ich on hand so I dosed that with a half the recommended dosing. I have been adding less then the recommended dosing every six hours since.

This afternoon I went home to feed the fish and noticed no more ich dots on the tang. He seems much less shy and is eating like a pig. Great!!. My questions for the group mind:

1. Should I still dose the cupramine?
2. Should I continue the use the rid ich for 4 more days as the directions instruct?
3. Say everything is fine at the end of this week, should I wait 4 additional weeks (QT period) to add the little guy to the DT? or longer?

Also, I don't want to alarm you. But if you have only had this fish for 3 or so days, and seeing spots multiply this quick, then I suspect velvet. A pic would be helpful. If velvet is the case, then you will want to get your cupramine to the theraputic level ASAP. Let us know if you need help. Figure out your total dosage needed. Split into as many small amounts as your schedule allows and ramp up over next 24-48hrs. Sooner the better.

Due to my recent experimenting, I can say the dosing on cupramine instructions seem to be on point.

 

[John Wassman]

Thanks guys for all the great replies. This site is very helpful to me personally. I will dose the copper when I get home.

 

[John Wassman]

Update, I did a 50 % water change. I have a glass bottom in my QT so I cleaned it with the sifter. I added 5 drops of copramine (its a 30 gallon tank). According to the instructions I am suppose to add 20 drops per 10.4 gallons. So I need to add 60 drops. I am going to add 5 drops every 10 hours or so till I am at the correct dosage. My tester comes in on Thursday. So I want to drag it out till then. Let me know if you have any further suggestions.

 

[HotRocks]

Update, I did a 50 % water change. I have a glass bottom in my QT so I cleaned it with the sifter. I added 5 drops of copramine (its a 30 gallon tank). According to the instructions I am suppose to add 20 drops per 10.4 gallons. So I need to add 60 drops. I am going to add 5 drops every 10 hours or so till I am at the correct dosage. My tester comes in on Thursday. So I want to drag it out till then. Let me know if you have any further suggestions.

That will only get you halfway there. If you read the instructions further it says repeat in 48 hours.

 

[HotRocks]

Update, I did a 50 % water change. I have a glass bottom in my QT so I cleaned it with the sifter. I added 5 drops of copramine (its a 30 gallon tank). According to the instructions I am suppose to add 20 drops per 10.4 gallons. So I need to add 60 drops. I am going to add 5 drops every 10 hours or so till I am at the correct dosage. My tester comes in on Thursday. So I want to drag it out till then. Let me know if you have any further suggestions.

Your total dosage to get to the theraputic level is 114-115 drops. If you have a full 30 gallons in your tank taking into consideration for displacement.

 

[Chrishvacman]

My go to is Chloroquine Phosphate.

I shoot for 15 mg per liter.


^Worth the time to watch

 

[tgrick]

This is very hard. Why? If it's ick you have time. If Velvet you are out of time. If it's velvet you MUST put him in a FRESHWATER bath and follow that with an acriflavin bath. The odds are that he will not survive without the dip or bath. Copper is great, it works. But it's too slow for Velvet. You need to raise copper slowly to avoid a quick kill.

If you are using CP...you still need the freshwater dip AND the acriflavin bath. Again, all this is based on the problem being velvet and not ick. Good Luck.

 

[tgrick]

I will also add the some LFS will provide CP. They are not legally allowed to do this but...it is what it is. CP is wonderful stuff. I hate copper...but I do use it on fish that don't tolerate CP.

 

[rkpetersen]

If you get some CP unpackaged from your LFS, purity may be an issue. However, to make sure that it at least is CP, and not powdered sugar or some such, take a bit on the tip of your finger and taste it. Quinine and quinine derivatives have a bitterness that is very distinctive (and not entirely unpleasant.)

 

[John Wassman]

Thanks for all the information, Frankly it is a little overwhelming. I honestly believe that it was ich as it has quite a few dots probably around 100 or so. Velvet looks to me (according to internet pictures) to be more of a coating on the fish in dots. I do not see any signs of the disease in the fish currently and he is eating and swimming well. He is not breathing heavy. I am dosing copramine and will continue to do so. I am currently at 20 drops and by the end of the day I should be at 30. Tomorrow 60 and so on until I am at the ~120 drops, I plan on testing the copper as soon as I get the tester tomorrow.

If the group thinks I need to do a fresh water bath I can do that tonight. Though I am concerned about the additional stress on this fish. I have two other tangs that are pretty hardy, though I have lost a couple of powder blue's in the past. I am not sure about the acriflavin bath as I have not heard of that before but I will be looking that up today.

 

[HotRocks]

If the fish has/had 100 dots, it's most likely velvet, not ich. It would be unlikely to have 100 white dots of ich.

Either way though the cupramine treats both. It would just be recommended to reach the therapudic level within 48 hours if it's velvet.

FW dip is just temporary relief for velvet, if the fish is showing improvement, I wouldn't worry about a dip. The acriflavine bath is an antiseptic, and would also provide relief and help prevent infection on the entrance wounds (white dots).

 

[tgrick]

I agree 100% with HotRocks. A few spots is ick...100 or more Velvet. You need the freshwater bath AND the acriflvin bath. He will not survive without the bath.