PVC and Tin

[Righteous]

I have a 100 gallon that also had creeping tin levels (assuming from the new pvc or glass). I used 1 cup of ROX 0.8, changed every two weeks for 2 months, plus two 25% water changes. Triton now reports my tin level at zero.

Also I continue to run ROX, just changed less frequently. No ill effects in livestock so far. If anything things are much happier.

 

[HM3105]

I may have missed it, but I take it you dont have many corals to be concerned about at this point?

I'm curious how they are reacting and/ or if that much ROX can strip other elements too much, too fast.

The corals I have left in that system are mostly LPS and zoas, they don't grow and have limited PE. I have 2 SPS that have been in there a while (a monti and birdnest) but the birdnext recently showed significantly decreased PE. The monti is just hanging on, no growth or PE.

I put the carbon in a reactor with it's own maxi-jet which I thought would help mitigate using 3 cups. I could be wrong so I guess we'll find out. I have a backup system should the corals start to show signs of excess stress.

I have a 100 gallon that also had creeping tin levels (assuming from the new pvc or glass). I used 1 cup of ROX 0.8, changed every two weeks for 2 months, plus two 25% water changes. Triton now reports my tin level at zero.

Also I continue to run ROX, just changed less frequently. No I’ll effects in livestock so far. If anything things are much happier.

I really hope that is what happens here. I've lost more than a few SPS at this point.

 

[Makers Marc]

I have a 100 gallon that also had creeping tin levels (assuming from the new pvc or glass). I used 1 cup of ROX 0.8, changed every two weeks for 2 months, plus two 25% water changes. Triton now reports my tin level at zero.

Also I continue to run ROX, just changed less frequently. No ill effects in livestock so far. If anything things are much happier.

I was more referencing running 3 cups of ROX when you've never run it/that much before. GAC definitely has its place.

 

[HM3105]

Here's an update for those following along.

On May 12, 2019 I added 3 cups of ROX carbon to a reactor put it in the sump. On May 27 I took a new sample and sent it to ATI for ICP analysis.

I received the results today, Tin went from 177.6 on May 14, 2019 to 48.23 on May 27, 2019.

ICP 5.27.19 (tin 48.23 ug/l) //lab.atiaquaristik.com/share/74b3068ccb33f4905f19

Adding the carbon was the only thing I changed. Therefore, it seems that it's reasonable to conclude that organotin is leaching from an unknown source but with the most likely source being the 4'+ run of flex PVC I used for my return pumps.

A side note, I have a separate system that is identical to the system that is the subject of this thread which I used as a control. I added the carbon to one system and not the other however I collected and sent samples for both systems at the same time. The control system showed a continued increase in the tin level vs. the system with the carbon.

 

[Makers Marc]

Here's an update for those following along.

On May 12, 2019 I added 3 cups of ROX carbon to a reactor put it in the sump. On May 27 I took a new sample and sent it to ATI for ICP analysis.

I received the results today, Tin went from 177.6 on May 14, 2019 to 48.23 on May 27, 2019.

ICP 5.27.19 (tin 48.23 ug/l) //lab.atiaquaristik.com/share/74b3068ccb33f4905f19

Adding the carbon was the only thing I changed. Therefore, it seems that it's reasonable to conclude that organotin is leaching from an unknown source but with the most likely source being the 4'+ run of flex PVC I used for my return pumps.

A side note, I have a separate system that is identical to the system that is the subject of this thread which I used as a control. I added the carbon to one system and not the other however I collected and sent samples for both systems at the same time. The control system showed a continued increase in the tin level vs. the system with the carbon.

Glad GAC worked for you. I ran the same experiment and it had 0%difference.

Important to note to though, Tin showed up as 17mcg/l with Triton but as 0mcg/l on ATI-ICP, both samples taken within seconds of each other.

 

[HM3105]

Glad GAC worked for you. I ran the same experiment and it had 0%difference.

Important to note to though, Tin showed up as 17mcg/l with Triton but as 0mcg/l on ATI-ICP, both samples taken within seconds of each other.

interesting, did you try CupriSorb instead of GAC? GAC removed the suspected organotin however the Cuprisorb did nothing.

 

[Makers Marc]

interesting, did you try CupriSorb instead of GAC? GAC removed the suspected organotin however the Cuprisorb did nothing.

I did both simultaneously, in amounts well in excess of the instructions. And I tested 3x (waste of money) over a 2 month period.

Water changes brought it down.

 

[DanConnor]

I know this is an old thread, but I have a question for the OP. Your own test (first post, last paragraph) seems to prove that the stock tank was the source of the tin, but later changed your opinion to thinking it was the flexible pvc. How come?

The reason I asking is early this fall I installed a 150 gallon rubbermaid sump to my system, and sometime after that I started to experience losses of large, old sps colonies. Triton shows 35 ug/l.

I'm running GAC and cuprisorb, and ordered metasorb.
Doing water changes also, but only can do 50 gallons every other day on a 400 system.

Are you still using your stock tank?

 

[HM3105]

I know this is an old thread, but I have a question for the OP. Your own test (first post, last paragraph) seems to prove that the stock tank was the source of the tin, but later changed your opinion to thinking it was the flexible pvc. How come?

The reason I asking is early this fall I installed a 150 gallon rubbermaid sump to my system, and sometime after that I started to experience losses of large, old sps colonies. Triton shows 35 ug/l.

I'm running GAC and cuprisorb, and ordered metasorb.
Doing water changes also, but only can do 50 gallons every other day on a 400 system.

Are you still using your stock tank?

Hi,

Yes I am still using the same stock tanks. You correctly note that I originally theorized the source of the tin was my stock tanks. I contacted the manufacture to ask if plasticizers (and specifically organotin) were used and they indicated they were not. the tanks are supposed to be FDA approved food grade poly so for a plasticizer that leaches to have made it's way into the water from those was a stretch to begin with. However, I really don't have a good answer as to why it registered tin after doing that test.

The information posted by Dkeller was what changed my mind or gave me a direction to try. Honestly, my thought process was start with the cheap stuff (remove the flex PVC) and work my way up.

I can say that after removing the flex PVC and running GAC for a few weeks my tin levels have remained low (last ICP shows 0.008 ppm).

Unfortunately, I would almost say that 35 ug/l may not be the culprit. You might consider using ICP Analysis while you're testing things to find the source. If you're just chasing Tin, I think it'll be precise enough. Are there any other heavy metals elevated? It might point to something corroding in the tank.

 

[DanConnor]

Well, when I re-arranged my sump room (actually moved to a different basement room) I eliminated about 20 feet of flex pvc, which had been fine for the previous 3 years. I do have a bit of new flex pvc but it was bought with the original batch, so I wasn't really looking at that as the issue.

There are no other elevated elements so it probably isn't corrosion, although I have inspected and cleaned every pump etc any way.

About half of my acro colonies are gone (over a couple months), and last week my stylophoras and a seriatopora departed. All 5 to 12 inches across. :-(

Interestingly, when a colony dies, its frags in other parts of the system all die at the same time.

Cuprisorb and Metasorb both say they remove tin, so between GAC and water changes I hope I can get a handle on it.
If it isn't tin that is causing the problems, I really can't imagine. I've tested everything possible countless times.