QT ammonia emergency

Liron Mishal · Jan 12, 2019

Need your help.
My DT is cycled and will break down 1.5ppm of ammonia within 24 hours.
It was cycled with a small internal filter in the sump to get it seeded for my QT.
I set it up 4 days ago and yesterday I added 3 medium tangs. Scopas, yellow and purple. I know its a bit much but introducing them at the same time as an absolutely must.
The QT is a 30 gallon tank. The ammonia went up to 1ppm within 24 hours.
Yesterday night I did a 100% water change and seeded with seachem stability at triple the dose and added a bag of matrix for the bacteria to attach to.
Also added a rock from my DT.
Originally dried Pukani.

Tested the ammonia this morning and its at .5 again.
I am determined not to put the fish in the DT until after a copper treatment is done. Feeding VERY lightly with sinking pellets.

Need your help please

Liron Mishal · Jan 12, 2019

Just to add that all three looks great,
Swimming around and searching for food.. not sure what to do...

Saveafish · Jan 12, 2019

Keep up hard on water changes. Tangs make heavy bio loads. Water Chang water change and water change.

Liron Mishal · Jan 12, 2019

doing 100% every 12 hours.
can seachem prime help? I know it detoxifies ammonia but will it effect the tank's cycle?

Saveafish · Jan 12, 2019

That will help some and so will prime. That is a big bio load. Water changing is your friend.

cmcoker · Jan 12, 2019

Get ahold if some biospira, I havent had much luck with stability seeding very well.

And be sure to remember that no prime can be mixed with copper. It will make copper toxic

Reefer5640 · Jan 12, 2019

+1 ^^^ Prime and copper are bad news together. I have found copper to be a tough way to QT a fish, specifically because of ammonia. You’ve got to do water changes, then your copper levels get out of wack (if they drop to low then you’re basically starting over, if they go too high then you’re poisoning the fish), you can’t really dose anything with it if another issue arises either so you’re kind of limited. If you can get the ammonia under control then it’s a great way to go. Also you may already know this but you’ll want to get that live rock out of there if you’ve already started copper, it will absorb the copper and make it difficult to maintain levels

robert · Jan 12, 2019

If you haven't started copper.
I use seachem safe (its seachem prime in a more cost effective form).
You can use it liberally to work into your cycle.
It won't affect the cycle - it will make testing difficult - depending on the test kit used - watch the fish.
I would start with a full dose every other day for a week - 20% WC then go to every third day the following week followed again by 20% WC.
You can do this indefinitely.

The bottled bacteria don't hurt - but often don't help much. Do not add the bacteria and think your safe.

Liron Mishal · Jan 12, 2019

thanks everyone!

haven't started copper just yet.
the plan was to observe for 2 weeks, copper treatment and another 2 weeks for observation.
first 2 weeks will start after everything is stable.

@robert if i got it correctly:
full dosage of Prime (cant get "safe") every other day
after 1 week do a 20% water change
full dosage every 3 days
20% water change
test for ammonia.

sounds like it heavily relays on the Prime instead of WC.. can I increase to 50% daily and Prime every 2 days?
can Prime be overdosed?

I don't mind adding bacteria (cant hurt), is microbacter 7 any good?

lakai · Jan 12, 2019

I've found seachem stability ineffective for a QT because of how long it takes for the bacteria to populate and how easily it dies. Ammonia would spike every few hours and I would have to do water changes. You can use Amquel as a bandaid but even that isn't a solution to the ammonia. A week of not sleeping and stressed out over the QT I decided to catch up on sleep and ammonia levels had my 3 tangs ( two pbt one blue) laying on the bottom lifeless. The ammonia levels were 0.7-0.9 mg/l for a few hours and luckily I was able to save them by putting them in buckets with airstones. The pb tangs survived for about 6 weeks then both died for no apparent reason a week apart after. The blue tang still survives.

Liron Mishal · Jan 12, 2019

hmmm encouraging

i'm off the the LFS to get Prime and microbacter7.
water is being mixed for a 100% WC.

Liron

Liron Mishal · Jan 12, 2019

Another question,
If u use prime and want to start copper treatment,
Will 100% wc be enough for not getting a reaction between the copper and prime?

robert · Jan 12, 2019

Liron Mishal said:
thanks everyone!

haven't started copper just yet.
the plan was to observe for 2 weeks, copper treatment and another 2 weeks for observation.
first 2 weeks will start after everything is stable.

@robert if i got it correctly:
full dosage of Prime (cant get "safe") every other day
after 1 week do a 20% water change
full dosage every 3 days
20% water change
test for ammonia.

sounds like it heavily relays on the Prime instead of WC.. can I increase to 50% daily and Prime every 2 days?
can Prime be overdosed?

I don't mind adding bacteria (cant hurt), is microbacter 7 any good?

I don't bother testing while using safe (prime) as it will show ammonia although it has been converted to a harmless form. I watch the fish and tend to use more prime than is actually necessary. I've never encountered any negative affect from using safe (prime) at multiples of the recommended dosage.

Sure you can increase your water change volume - can't do anything but help.
The reason I said 20% (that is 100 gal on my system) is that I had to do exactly this on my present system (500 gal including sump) with ~10 big tangs on board and got through the cycle without a hitch.

I'm not a big fan of the bacterial tank additives - I would rather get a good chunk of cycled rock or sand from a shop or fellow reefer honestly. I know there are test kits that will read correctly - seachem site should have some recommendations.

I keep many tangs - and am not a fan of prophylactic treatments in general and especially not a fan of copper. Copper is a poison to fish and parasite alike - you have to carefully walk the line - enough to kill the parasite but not enough to harm the fish - its hard to get right as PH and environment are critical not to mention that individual fish have differing sensitivities. A lot of damage can be done to the fish without killing it which ends up weakening the fish to the other challenges of tank life.

Copper is one of those things with such a low margin of error that I just don't like messing with it.

Liron Mishal · Jan 12, 2019

Thanks @robert
as I am determine to keep a disease free DT, I see no other option other than copper.
I was trying to get a hold on Chloroquine phosphate but it's not readily available around here.

I can add some more rocks from the DT, but I think that the bioload is a bit too heavy. I guess that WC are key to go through this phase.
Once it is cycled, I plan on keeping some clowns or damsels in there to keep it going.