QT tank or murder box?? Help!!

[Cthulukelele]

I'll try going the mesh route. I can say though... Fish have made it through a full QT protocol in this tank on multiple occasions. In May when I got hit with velvet I had about 5 fish make it through. In September when ich struck I had probably 12 fish go through it with no issues.

I agree with mnfish1 that the most likely problem given the information you've given is an already unhealthy fish. Generally you should feel pretty good about your qt setup and its thoughtfulness. Don't let the losses get you down too much. It sucks that it happens, but it's clear you care and are trying hard, so keep it up!

 

[alabella1]

I agree with mnfish1 that the most likely problem given the information you've given is an already unhealthy fish. Generally you should feel pretty good about your qt setup and its thoughtfulness. Don't let the losses get you down too much. It sucks that it happens, but it's clear you care and are trying hard, so keep it up!

I just want to be as sure of this as possible as I have a good group of fish coming in January from Dr. Reef. Paid the premium for the QT svc. I plan to put them into observation for a bit before the DT. Just want to make sure my tanks aren't going to continue the murderous streak

 

[Talisman]

I have heard that when you open the bag you should immediately release the fish into your tank because once the bag water mixes with fresh air the ammonium that has built up in that small bag will react and become toxic ammonia. So you should float the SEALED bags to temperature acclimate and then put the fish in the tank. Match the salinity to the LFS tanks beforehand.

 

[MnFish1]

So you're saying go ahead and run the airstone full blast in addition to the HOB and the powerhead?? I've heard many say don't do airstone unless you are doing something like prazi which is eating up the oxygen.

I cleaned the tank in the sink with just water. Scrubbed it, dried with with paper towels. Painted the bottom. I didn't add water for days, made sure I fully cycled it as well.

The only other thing I can think of is the top of the tank which is one of those aqueon hoods - plastic back with cutouts, glass in middle for light fixture to sit on and flip up plastic front cover. Could the issue be this type of cover? Should I be going with an open top mesh?

I would use an open mesh cover, but, there was a thread a while back that tried to document that even with a glass top, there is still adequate gas exchange (I'm not Sure I totally buy that - but thats what they said).

I'm glad you contacted the LFS. Did you add anything to the water like a medication, etc? Or were you just observing? (sorry if you already said it - I don't remember).

I believe someone else mentioned this - but do you know if the LFS had copper or any other medication in their tank? I would say (while waiting for your answers) - that the possibilities are (Not in order of likelihood):

1. Bad luck /poor quality fish and they just happened to die after the move - i.e. the had an underlying disease.
2. An unknown contaminant in your current tank, HOB filter, etc. That even though you cleaned - it's still present.
3. Ammonia that was not measured by your alert badge - especially if you have some medication in the water.
4. Oxygen

(note 3 and 4 would to me have hurt both fish at the same time.
5. A disease that was present - the LFS was using a low dose medication in their tank - and when moved, the disease took over your fish.
6. If you are dosing something to your tank - you overdosed.
7. Something else - like the LFS didn't really have the fish for 3 weeks, etc etc.

I know it's hard to try to figure this out - and it's easy to see your frustration with all of this. I would carefully think over what 'might have happened' - anything you overlooked (did your 'scrubber' have some soap on it somehow.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

One other thought - what about testing the tank with a bioassay animal? Basically, adding something else, of low value, to see if it lives. Toxins typically affect invertebrates first, that’s why they use mysid shrimp to test for water pollution. You could test a snail perhaps.
Jay

 

[MnFish1]

I have heard that when you open the bag you should immediately release the fish into your tank because once the bag water mixes with fresh air the ammonium that has built up in that small bag will react and become toxic ammonia. So you should float the SEALED bags to temperature acclimate and then put the fish in the tank. Match the salinity to the LFS tanks beforehand.

I think thats much more of a problem when fish are shipped overnight - my impression was that it was a quick trip from an LFS? But its a good thought

 

[MnFish1]

I went to the LFS and picked them up. Floated them for 30-45 and then moved them right into the tank since salinities matched. I did test the water right after the male died and the ammonia was still not an issue. I did not even get to begin medication. This was during the first 2 days of observation. LFS says fish were healthy for over 3 weeks on their end before I picked them up.

Thanks - I missed the fact that you had not put medication in the tank and that. you tested the ammonia again. To me that makes an underlying disease more of a possibility and the stress of the move/capture, etc caused a problem. Do you happen to have any other things (PVC, etc) in your tank? What was the specific gravity in both your tank and the fish store bags - and how did you measure it?

EDIT - I agree with @Jay Hemdal that putting something else in the tank - and observing - would be a great idea - if it survives for a couple weeks - at least you know that there is no issue with the tank/equipment releasing some toxin.

 

[alabella1]

One other thought - what about testing the tank with a bioassay animal? Basically, adding something else, of low value, to see if it lives. Toxins typically affect invertebrates first, that’s why they use mysid shrimp to test for water pollution. You could test a snail perhaps.
Jay

Tank previously had copper, should that be a concern?

 

[alabella1]

Thanks - I missed the fact that you had not put medication in the tank and that. you tested the ammonia again. To me that makes an underlying disease more of a possibility and the stress of the move/capture, etc caused a problem. Do you happen to have any other things (PVC, etc) in your tank? What was the specific gravity in both your tank and the fish store bags - and how did you measure it?

EDIT - I agree with @Jay Hemdal that putting something else in the tank - and observing - would be a great idea - if it survives for a couple weeks - at least you know that there is no issue with the tank/equipment releasing some toxin.

Tank has 5 pieces of blue pvc from brs. It was a big piece I cut into smaller pieces. Sal. was 1.025 for both the tank and the water the fish came over in. I measure with the hanna digital reader.

 

[nuxx Verified Sponsor]

Worked well for me personally:

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[MnFish1]

Tank has 5 pieces of blue pvc from brs. It was a big piece I cut into smaller pieces. Sal. was 1.025 for both the tank and the water the fish came over in. I measure with the hanna digital reader.

Thanks - Since they were both the same it suggests that that salinity was not the problem. However - Have you calibrated it?

 

[MnFish1]

Tank previously had copper, should that be a concern?

No

 

[MnFish1]

Worked well for me personally:

Best Quarantine Procedures For Saltwater Fish and Coral

Quarantining new saltwater fish, coral, inverts and live rock is the most important step in keeping a healthy marine aquarium. Here are our preferred methods.

www.tankstop.com

Thats an interesting article. Not sure it helps the OP? Or perhaps I'm misunderstanding?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Tank previously had copper, should that be a concern?

Yeah - that won't work unless you use a fish for the bioassay. People frown upon using fish as test animals though.

Jay

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

I have heard that when you open the bag you should immediately release the fish into your tank because once the bag water mixes with fresh air the ammonium that has built up in that small bag will react and become toxic ammonia. So you should float the SEALED bags to temperature acclimate and then put the fish in the tank. Match the salinity to the LFS tanks beforehand.

This does not apply to fish that have only been bagged long enough to get from the LFS to your home...

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

I would use an open mesh cover, but, there was a thread a while back that tried to document that even with a glass top, there is still adequate gas exchange

IIRC, this was for a tank with a sump and possibly a skimmer...

 

[cdnco2004]

Yeah - that won't work unless you use a fish for the bioassay. People frown upon using fish as test animals though.

Jay

Thats what we do with the black molly tests.

 

[MnFish1]

IIRC, this was for a tank with a sump and possibly a skimmer...

I don't know what IIRC means - but - you are probably correct - it was a tank - not a QT tank.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

I don't know what IIRC means - but - you are probably correct - it was a tank - not a QT tank.

IIRC = if I recall correctly

 

[rd62rdstr]

I just want to be as sure of this as possible as I have a good group of fish coming in January from Dr. Reef. Paid the premium for the QT svc. I plan to put them into observation for a bit before the DT. Just want to make sure my tanks aren't going to continue the murderous streak

I also have quarantined fish on order with Dr Reef. I have seen many many posts lately discussing flukes and ich after receiving their fish. Word of caution, you might place them in a qt tank and at least treat with prazipro if nothing else.