QT Tanks - Chicken or the egg?

[seastar]

I setup a 75g DT about a month ago, and I really want to get fish into it. Sadly one must have patience and I have read too many good articles on this forum professing the successes of treating in a QT tank for Ich/Flukes, etc. This applies to THE VERY FIRST fish put into the tank as I understand it so my DT will need to wait that much longer.

My (long) question is this, I have a new DT tank, and and even newer 20g QT tanks, I have "established" the QT tank but using water from the DT and seeding the sponge and bio material in the DT tank for 2 weeks before starting the QT tank. I added 5 green chromis to the 20g QT and two have already not made it. I am wondering, is my QT tank no "established" enough yet to handle that kind of load? I just want to make sure Im not going to keep tossing these poor guys into a tank that isn't ready to handle the load yet. Im sticking with the remaining 3 for the rest of the two weeks I have in the one month QT in hopes they all make it.

Side note, after this quarantine I plan on slowly adding fish one at a time from here on out, just wanted to get the green chromis out of the way so I can get my DT finally going.

 

[Amoo]

I think it was a simple matter of math in this case. 5 new fish into one tank at one time is a HUGE increase on bioload, even for your 75. Do you have an ammonia badge on said QT tank?

 

[Daytonareefing]

You should really be testing the water that will help a lot so no more fish die if something is to high do a water change. Salifert is a very good test kit to use.

 

[seastar]

I think it was a simple matter of math in this case. 5 new fish into one tank at one time is a HUGE increase on bioload, even for your 75. Do you have an ammonia badge on said QT tank?

Yeah... both reading 0. I am doing 20% weekly water changes too.

 

[seastar]

You should really be testing the water that will help a lot so no more fish die if something is to high do a water change. Salifert is a very good test kit to use.

Thank you, looking into that kit. I have one of those API test kits.

 

[seastar]

I agree 5 to a new 20g was a bit... foolish.

when setting up brand new DT and QT tanks... does it make sense to setup and start to cycle the DT for a month or so, and seed the filter media for the QT during that same time, so that the QT is semi-established, and then take the water from the DT tank to fill the QT? That is basically exactly what I did, other than my DT was actually at 2 months when I started the QT.

 

[Daytonareefing]

It does. Everyone has different ways of doing things but thats what I would have done but I run my QT all the time so it stay cycled in less it has to be broke down do to needing to be cleaned after an outbreak which does not happen much.

 

[seastar]

I definitely plan on always having my QT running as well, never know when you're going to need a hospital tank or want to add another fish.

 

[ilovereefing <3]

In my experience with QT's, weekly water changes aren't quite enough to manage the new bioload. I did daily testing on my QT's, and usually daily water changes until they were cycled enough to not have to do them. I also used a bacteria boosting product (i.e. Dr. Tim's One and Only) to help with the cycling as well. What is your nitrite reading? If your water is testing good, I would assume the fish loss was for some other reason and I would consider lengthening your QT to make sure the remaining 3 are in top shape before adding to your display. Chromis are typically hardy fish and can withstand some bad water quality before perishing. Are they showing signs of stress or illness? How are they eating?

 

[seastar]

In my experience with QT's, weekly water changes aren't quite enough to manage the new bioload. I did daily testing on my QT's, and usually daily water changes until they were cycled enough to not have to do them. I also used a bacteria boosting product (i.e. Dr. Tim's One and Only) to help with the cycling as well. What is your nitrite reading? If your water is testing good, I would assume the fish loss was for some other reason and I would consider lengthening your QT to make sure the remaining 3 are in top shape before adding to your display. Chromis are typically hardy fish and can withstand some bad water quality before perishing. Are they showing signs of stress or illness? How are they eating?

Excellent question and something I previously left out. On the advice of my LFS I fed some thawed mysis shrimp and in combination (mostly due to my?) lack of immediate removal my water clouded (though no reading spikes). Next day two fish down. Both fish stopped had stopped eating when this happened.

 

[seastar]

I will also do more frequent water changes, thanks for that. Grabbing from the DT still ok to do? I feel like that water is more stable than my ability to mix salt in a bucket right now.

I've been using API test kits (are those frowned upon?) and a Seachem Ammonia Alert in tank tester.

I also reseeded my sponge with Seachem Stabilityafter I took it out of my DT refigium (had that hanging out in the filter sock). Think I should keep adding that with my water changes? It says you can't really overdose that. I should note Im treating with Cupermine and PraziPro (both listed as safe to treat together many many times in threads here.) I test those very closely as well.

 

[ilovereefing <3]

I think grabbing water from the DT is totally fine if you can't mix up smaller amounts of water for the QT. Just make sure that nothing that touches the QT touches the DT (siphons, nets, etc.). Have to treat the DT kind of like a sterile environment. I had used the API test kits when I first started (they are cheap, and come in those neat little sets that keeps everything together), but I found that for me, it was difficult to do all that color matching. They also weren't as accurate as I would have liked them to be. I have since switched to using Hanna Checkers for nitrite, alkalinity, calcium, and phosphate; Salifert for pH and nitrate, and Red Sea for ammonia and magnesium. I do not have experience with the Seachem Ammonia Alert badge, so I cannot really comment on those.

I used Seachem Stability as well in the past, and though I cannot say if it worked or not, I have never had a fish loss in QT that was attributed to water quality issues. I also have never done Cupramine and Prazipro at the same time, so I cannot say anything about that either. My usual regimen is this: I FW dip (be sure to pH balance, set temp to same as QT, and aerate well for an hour before attempting) all fish before adding to the QT. The first week is usually a resting week for me, I do not add any meds to the water, though I do feed Prazipro soaked food for a couple of feedings at that time. After the fish are settled in for a week, I start Cupramine dosing. I did my dosing at half the rate suggested in the instructions, as copper can be quite a shock in itself and I like to be as gentle as possible. Once at full strength, I start the 14 day clock. After the 14 days, I remove all copper and do 30 days of R&R as I like to call it, for observation and strengthening of the fish. I usually only have one or two fish in QT at a time, and my QT is probably considered large for just a QT (55 gallons, had the tank lying around so why not). If a fish dies or gets ill, the process and clock starts all over again.

It sounds like you may (don't quote me on this, just speculation) have had a bacteria bloom with the cloudy water caused by leftover food. The bacteria consume a lot of the free oxygen in the tank, so make sure you have really good aeration in there. Maybe oxygen levels just got too low. I had it happen once in my 55, and I added a cheap powerhead with venturi that nipped that issue in the bud right quick. What type of filtration are you using?

It is nice to see that you are going through your QT process and caring so much even for the very first inhabitants of your tank. I commend you for having the patience to go through the QT process. My biggest mistake in my first set up was ignoring the QT advice altogether, and just dumping new fish into my tank. Can you say CRASH AND BURN?? Lol! Keep up the good work!

 

[seastar]

@ilovereefing <3 you may have saved 3 more fish, I had forgotten to add the powerhead I purchased for the QT tank. :| I am almost certain it was a bacteria bloom now that you mention it. I have an aquaclear 50 (on a 20g) but I suspect that still wasn't enough to keep up with the oxygen levels.

Thank you so much for your replies! I was rethinking the QT idea earlier today because I thought I was just killing fish in a tank that was 't ready to house them yet.

Hanna Checkers for nitrite, alkalinity, calcium, and phosphate; Salifert for pH and nitrate, and Red Sea for ammonia and magnesium

I will most likely be breaking out the wallet tonight for these,

...and yes, crash and burn is what I am hoping to avoid at all costs by following all of the great advice on here! This was pure gold, thank you so much.

 

[seastar]

After the fish are settled in for a week, I start Cupramine dosing. I did my dosing at half the rate suggested in the instructions, as copper can be quite a shock in itself and I like to be as gentle as possible. Once at full strength, I start the 14 day clock. After the 14 days, I remove all copper and do 30 days of R&R as I like to call it, for observation and strengthening of the fish.

after your 14 day, do you ever do a separate PraziPro treatment? I know you mentioned 30 days of R&R so I'm assuming that's a no? Jsut curious as I thought it might be nice to make sure flukes and other bad guys are gone as well as ich.

 

[ilovereefing <3]

Your filtration is great, and adding the powerhead will help with gas exchange. I found that my Aquaclear wasn't creating enough turbulence on the surface, and adding the powerhead was perfect.

With the test kits...you'll probably find that you'll like some over the others. I like the Hanna Checkers because they are so accurate and simple. No guesswork. The Salifert tests are tried and true, and work well for many reefers. I am just trying out the Red Sea kits, and I like them so far as well, though they do tend to be a little more effort than the Saliferts. Find what works for you.

And no problem at all, thank you for the compliment. You're very welcome! If I can help keep someone from making the same mistakes I made...I'm all for it! Happy reefing!

 

[ilovereefing <3]

I have done Prazipro in tank if the fish is not eating. But if they are eating, I just add a few drops to the food and soak for a few hours in the fridge. I do a couple of feedings with the medicated food, and that's usually it. Looking back at my records, it looks like I have only done Prazipro in tank once for a sick fish, and it worked. The fish began eating about 2 days into treatment. As a preventative though, I have only used it in food.

 

[ilovereefing <3]

Oh, and of course...all meds are administered in QT, not the DT. Just wanted to make that clear...lol!

 

[Daytonareefing]

I should have said my favorite filter for a small QT tank is a biowheel I found over the years they work much better than a sponge filter filled with carbon alone. I should have also said when I start any new tank I try to fill it half full of water from a tank thats been going for years it does really help cut down or cut out the cycling period. Also I would take a biowheel off a different already going tank and switch it with the new one on the new filter because my biowheel filters come with 2 biowheels. I am going to get a little carried away with my QT I have now as its 30 gallons and I'm switching from the biowheel to a sump skimmer and chiller. A chiller because I'm in Florida and a fan over the sump is way not enough. The main reason I'm switching to a sump is to add a chiller. Most people will not need a chiller though.