QT'ing Chromis, not going well.

A formalin bath is not all that uncommon as an intake step. Check out the product Safety Stop, which Marc Levenson (melevs reef) uses.
"There is anecdotal evidence (but never scientifically proven) that some fish exposed to formalin don’t live past 18-24 months. In some areas, the purchase of formalin is prohibited."

Quote taken from: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/formalin.290925/

Based on this i would never use this stuff as an intake step, only on fish who show clear signs of uronema or brook.
 
"There is anecdotal evidence (but never scientifically proven) that some fish exposed to formalin don’t live past 18-24 months. In some areas, the purchase of formalin is prohibited."

Quote taken from: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/formalin.290925/

Based on this i would never use this stuff as an intake step, only on fish who show clear signs of uronema or brook.

Totally understand why you might not like using it. There is published evidence that it's not ideal just after transport. However, it is specifically sold for prophylactic use (Safety Stop).

Humblefish used the word anecdotal to discuss long term concerns, as I'm sure you noticed in the passage you quoted.

Another fantastic resource is the go-to fish disease veterinary textbook, Edward Noga's "Fish Disease, Diagnosis and Treatment."

Here are a few passages from that book about the use of formalin:

"Formalin is an aqueous solution of
37 – 40% formaldehyde gas (which equals 100% forma-
lin). Formalin cross - links proteins, resulting in cell death
(van Ham and Hall 1998 ). It is an effective parasiticide
for bath treatment of most ectoparasitic protozoa and monogeneans. It has moderate - to - weak antibacterial activity. It also has moderate - to - strong activity against
water molds on eggs but is not antifungal at doses that
are nontoxic to fish."

"Formalin can be irritating to the gills, and water should
be well aerated during treatment. Formalin is more toxic
in soft, acid water and at high temperatures. Even slight
differences in dosage or exposure time can have a major
effect on toxicity (Heinen et al. 1995 ). Some fi sh, especially elasmobranchs, are sensitive to formalin, so it is
best to do a bioassay before using it on an untested fish
species. Idiopathic deaths may occur within 1 – 72 hours of treatment (Warren 1981 )."

"Formalin is contraindicated if fish have been recently
stressed (e.g., transported, shipped) or if skin ulcers are
present. Used formalin solutions should be diluted to at
least 25 ppm before discarding.
Formalin is volatile and irritating. It causes cancer in
laboratory rodents and can cause contact hypersensitivity
and lung damage in humans; solutions should be tightly
sealed during storage and not allowed to contact human
skin. Formalin should only be used in well - ventilated
areas.

Formalin should be stored in the dark and above 4 ° C
(39 ° F) to inhibit paraformaldehyde formation, a highly
ichthyotoxic white precipitate (Fig. III - 6 ). Formalin
should never be used for treating fish if paraformaldehyde is present. Methanol (12 – 15%) is added to formalin
to inhibit paraformaldehyde formation. Formalin should
not be mixed with potassium permanganate.
Formalin chemically interferes with the methods used
to commonly measure ammonia and thus accurate
ammonia readings are not possible with these methods
when using formalin"

"1. Bath
a. Add 0.125 – 0.250 ml formalin/l (= 125 – 250 ppm =
0.47 – 0.95 ml formalin/gallon), and treat for up to
60 minutes. This can be repeated two to three
times once daily if needed. When temperatures are
high ( > 21 ° C [= 70 ° F] for warm water fish or
> 10 ° C [= 50 ° F] for cold water fi sh), do not use
> 167 ppm (= 0.167 ml/l = 184 mg/liter = 0.63 ml/
gallon) (Warren 1981 ; Jensen and Durborow
1984 ). The maximum dose should only be used every 3 days. Up to 167 ppm can be used on concurrent days (Post 1983 ). Formalin is usually contraindicated if the temperature is low l 27 ° C."

Honestly though, aren't we beating a dead horse (chromis)? I posted the passage above for anyone looking for treatment info in the future, but the OP's fish all died (probably of uronemia) a month ago.


Edit: sorry for the funny formatting. Can't be easily fixed.
 
Totally understand why you might not like using it. There is published evidence that it's not ideal just after transport. However, it is specifically sold for prophylactic use (Safety Stop).

Humblefish used the word anecdotal to discuss long term concerns, as I'm sure you noticed in the passage you quoted.

Another fantastic resource is the go-to fish disease veterinary textbook, Edward Noga's "Fish Disease, Diagnosis and Treatment."

Here are a few passages from that book about the use of formalin:

"Formalin is an aqueous solution of
37 – 40% formaldehyde gas (which equals 100% forma-
lin). Formalin cross - links proteins, resulting in cell death
(van Ham and Hall 1998 ). It is an effective parasiticide
for bath treatment of most ectoparasitic protozoa and monogeneans. It has moderate - to - weak antibacterial activity. It also has moderate - to - strong activity against
water molds on eggs but is not antifungal at doses that
are nontoxic to fish."

"Formalin can be irritating to the gills, and water should
be well aerated during treatment. Formalin is more toxic
in soft, acid water and at high temperatures. Even slight
differences in dosage or exposure time can have a major
effect on toxicity (Heinen et al. 1995 ). Some fi sh, especially elasmobranchs, are sensitive to formalin, so it is
best to do a bioassay before using it on an untested fish
species. Idiopathic deaths may occur within 1 – 72 hours of treatment (Warren 1981 )."

"Formalin is contraindicated if fish have been recently
stressed (e.g., transported, shipped) or if skin ulcers are
present. Used formalin solutions should be diluted to at
least 25 ppm before discarding.
Formalin is volatile and irritating. It causes cancer in
laboratory rodents and can cause contact hypersensitivity
and lung damage in humans; solutions should be tightly
sealed during storage and not allowed to contact human
skin. Formalin should only be used in well - ventilated
areas.

Formalin should be stored in the dark and above 4 ° C
(39 ° F) to inhibit paraformaldehyde formation, a highly
ichthyotoxic white precipitate (Fig. III - 6 ). Formalin
should never be used for treating fish if paraformaldehyde is present. Methanol (12 – 15%) is added to formalin
to inhibit paraformaldehyde formation. Formalin should
not be mixed with potassium permanganate.
Formalin chemically interferes with the methods used
to commonly measure ammonia and thus accurate
ammonia readings are not possible with these methods
when using formalin"

"1. Bath
a. Add 0.125 – 0.250 ml formalin/l (= 125 – 250 ppm =
0.47 – 0.95 ml formalin/gallon), and treat for up to
60 minutes. This can be repeated two to three
times once daily if needed. When temperatures are
high ( > 21 ° C [= 70 ° F] for warm water fish or
> 10 ° C [= 50 ° F] for cold water fi sh), do not use
> 167 ppm (= 0.167 ml/l = 184 mg/liter = 0.63 ml/
gallon) (Warren 1981 ; Jensen and Durborow
1984 ). The maximum dose should only be used every 3 days. Up to 167 ppm can be used on concurrent days (Post 1983 ). Formalin is usually contraindicated if the temperature is low l 27 ° C."

Honestly though, aren't we beating a dead horse (chromis)? I posted the passage above for anyone looking for treatment info in the future, but the OP's fish all died (probably of uronemia) a month ago.


Edit: sorry for the funny formatting. Can't be easily fixed.
None of the veterinary textbooks/articles promotes the use of formalin as a prophylactic (correct me if i'm wrong here) because it is highly carcinogenic (and irritating), so i think this isn't a dead horse we're beating but pointing out the dangers to people who think it's a good idea to use this stuff as a prophylactic.

My job is done here. ;)
 
None of the veterinary textbooks/articles promotes the use of formalin as a prophylactic (correct me if i'm wrong here) because it is highly carcinogenic (and irritating), so i think this isn't a dead horse we're beating but pointing out the dangers to people who think it's a good idea to use this stuff as a prophylactic.

My job is done here. ;)
Since you brought up humblefish treads:

1651515039480.png


 
Since you brought up humblefish treads:

1651515039480.png


Im not against formalin use. I just think its very easy to use improperly and harm your fish. I don't think OP's fish died of Uronema, seemed more like a param/dosage/interaction issue
 
Im not against formalin use. I just think its very easy to use improperly and harm your fish. I don't think OP's fish died of Uronema, seemed more like a param/dosage/interaction issue

LOL. thanks for the feedback. I assure you, they died of uronema. It's an easy to diagnose issue. One of the easiest conditions to ID. And again, I didn't use straight up formalin. i used ruby rally pro as a bath at different concentrations. Ruby Rally pro is reef safe.

There is a reason no vendors, including Dr. Reef, TSM, etc.. will guarantee chromis. You can't truly rid them of it. I've QT'd many fish without issue, but will not be bothering with chromis again. I've tried QT'ing them with nothing but copper, and they all died of uronema while in copper, so this time I attempted a more aggressive approach to try to stop the uronema earlier and they still all died of uronema.

Maybe my LFS just gets them from a terrible import channel... I dunno, but they can't keep chromis alive either.
every time they get a batch of 30 or so, you can clearly see half a dozen or so with spots already on day 1. The last time I tried them, I tried picking out some that didn't have any spots, but those also developed spots and died in QT too. Within a few days, a bunch more at the LFS will have either died or more gotten spots. The entire batch is always gone in less than a week. My LFS can't keep them alive any longer than that either. Maybe other people have better sources, but the ones my LFS gets are very low quality and have very low chance of survival. I've all but given up on them. At this point I don't think I'll ever take the risk of adding one. 7 or 8 days is about the longest I've ever had one live.

There is no way I would attempt to put one in my DT without QT either. that would just be asking for trouble. At this point, I'd much rather QT a fish that is known to be difficult like wrasses or anthias over a $3 chromis.

Regardless, I've moved on from chromis. if you all want to keep arguing about this, have at it. haha.
 
Since you brought up humblefish treads:

1651515039480.png


Time to update his official website then because formalin is not mentioned as a prophylactic in his quarantaine protocol:


Copper, Chloroquine and metro/prazi is mentioned, formalin not.
 
My experience with chromis is that it's only a matter of time before they killed each other off anyway.

I wanted them years ago for the same reason as you, and started out with more than 6. Didn't matter, constantly fighting. Never attempted them again after that.
 
Time to update his official website then because formalin is not mentioned as a prophylactic in his quarantaine protocol:


Copper, Chloroquine and metro/prazi is mentioned, formalin not.
Not sure what to tell you. He wrote it not me. I guess it must be time to update the site!
 
Who said anything about an ucycled tank? The tank had been cycled for weeks.
Your original post said that you cleaned and bleached your qt tank and you have it cycled for a couple of weeks. Probably some bacteria in a bottle or something. I see that all the time these days.
I do wish you success with your fish . they are live animals .
 

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