Quarantine questions

[Wildreefs]

so I am running two quarantine tanks, a 29 gallon, with approx 20 gallons of water, and a 20, filled with 10.

I am not counting on any bioflter as I would like, so my question is, can prime be used with the following:

General cure

Copper power

Metroplex.

If not, how often and and what volume should I be doing water changes:

In the 29 gallon (20 actual water volume) there is golden dwarf moray, one green chromis, twin spot hog fish (1.5 inches long) 3 inch emperor and a yellow tang (2 inches)


In the 20 gallon tank (10 actual volume) is a small purple tang, small hippo tang and small clownfish.


Feeding sparingly once a day, would a 50 percent water change, done every 3rd day work? (If done on Monday, then not again til Thursday)

I have a Seachem badge in both tanks, but do not trust them. I purposely spiked the ammonia in a fishless tank, and it still ready safe.

Thanks

 

[HotRocks]

Prime can NOT be used with any type of copper. It's fine to use with the other medications you listed.

I would personally perform a WC as soon as there is any registering amount of ammonia.

You can use biospira to Kickstart the biofilter. I'd recommend doing so.

 

[NinnJinn]

Do not use prime with copper power it will make the copper level toxic. The other two medications I am not sure of. But a 50% water change every 3 days is what I'm currently doing. Just make sure you're copper level never drops below therapeutic level otherwise you will have to start the quarantine clock all over again.

 

[Wildreefs]

I guess my plan will be since the tanks have only been running a week, use prime and general cure first 10 days or so to get that out of the way, and then hopefully by week 2 or 3 I will have some sort of biofilter to run copper and not use prime.

Water changes every 3rd day just to assist .

 

[ngoodermuth]

I’ve never use prime in my QTs, just because symptoms can arise very quickly and it’s not worth the possible interaction if I have to switch gears.

The nice thing about GC and copper is they CAN be used concurrently in a pinch. So, say you dose GC and the next day your fish have velvet...much easier without the prime. Whenever I’m running QT I just make sure I always have extra saltwater mixed up just in case and try to stay on top of water changes.

 

[BeejReef]

So, not to hijack, but is it the general consensus to quarantine your very first fish as well... like on a new tank? Or, is it acceptable to get a few fish in the DT and medicate the DT (no coral or inverts yet) if a disease becomes apparent and a fish appears to be losing the battle? Ofc, the obvious follow up is, now isn't my DT quite possibly hosting unwanted bacteria or parasites that any subsequent "sterilized" fish may fall victim to?

I'm not looking to stir the pot, but am just setting up my first tank and am thinking (overthinking) a lot of concepts. From what I've read, nearly every commercial system and almost all wild-caught fish will have some sort of parasite. Live rock and sand may well have parasites and bacteria. Conversely, sterile dry rock has no bio-diversity and often leads to dinoflaggelates, algae blooms, and other parameter swings that can stress and sicken otherwise healthy fish. It simply seems inconceivable to me that even our best efforts could result in a sterile environment... assuming that even would be a good thing?

So, I guess it might be a more controversial question than I had intended. I claim no expertise. I just want to understand the theory.

Is the hope/promise of quarantine that we will never introduce an unwanted parasite or bacteria to our DT (akin to CDC protocols or astronauts living in a trailer for a month after a moon mission)?
If that's not the goal, what are the benefits of QT, assuming we likely do have some nasties already in the DT that our fish have found equilibrium with?

 

[ngoodermuth]

Yes, in general it’s best to begin QT with the very first fish and for each fish after. That stops the bad “bugs” from ever getting into your DT to begin with.

If you’ve started your tank without QT’ing then yes, for your QT endeavors to be most successful you would want to QT your existing fish and let your DT run fallow, preferably for at least 76 days.

Excerpted from humble’s write-up on fallow periods:

Fallow Periods - Below is the general consensus fallow periods for all diseases that require it. In most cases, it is the longest known time period that the encysted stage can survive on corals, inverts, rocks, substrate without a fish host to feed on. The fallow period starts when the last fish is removed from the tank.

• Black ich (turbellarian worms) - 4 weeks
• Brooklynella aka “Clownfish disease” or “Brook” - 6 weeks
• Flukes (monogenean worms) - 4 weeks
• Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans) - 76 days
• Uronema marinum - No fallow period, as it does not require a fish host to survive. It is an opportunistic parasite that strikes when a fish’s immune system has been compromised. Uronema mainly affects damsels (especially chromis) and clownfish.
• Velvet (Amyloodinium) - 6 weeks

If you don’t decide to QT your existing fish, you would still have the benefit of knowing you aren’t introducing anything NEW to your existing community moving forward. But, yes... you do run the risk of a new fish becoming victim to whatever is already lurking there as he will not have the same built-up resistance as the current fish.

 

[ngoodermuth]

I think of it this way; say you are running an ich-management scenario. Your current fish have some level of immunity to the parasite so aren’t generally affected. A new fish might develop that resistance, or might become overwhelmed and perish.

But, if the new fish comes in with marine velvet or uronema... well then the resistance your fish have to ich is a mute point and ALL or most of your fish die anyway. And you will likely consider instituting some sort of QT process moving forward anyway... because losing all of your fish sucks.

 

[BeejReef]

I think of it this way; say you are running an ich-management scenario. Your current fish have some level of immunity to the parasite so aren’t generally affected. A new fish might develop that resistance, or might become overwhelmed and perish.

But, if the new fish comes in with marine velvet or uronema... well then the resistance your fish have to ich is a mute point and ALL or most of your fish die anyway. And you will likely consider instituting some sort of QT process moving forward anyway... because losing all of your fish sucks.

I guess I just want the best of both worlds. I don't want to ever introduce anything harmful (ESPECIALLY URENOMA), but if I slip up and do, I want my fish to be highly resistant.. lol. Whoever figures out how to do that will make a few bucks

 

[ngoodermuth]

I guess I just want the best of both worlds. I don't want to ever introduce anything harmful (ESPECIALLY URENOMA), but if I slip up and do, I want my fish to be highly resistant.. lol. Whoever figures out how to do that will make a few bucks

You could always go with a more conservative approach and set up a QT that is basically a mini-DT with rock, sand etc. to observe new fish carefully and get them eating well without necessarily jumping right to medications.

You have to be hyper-vigilant, though, to ensure nothing sneaks through undetected; and even then some fish (like wrasses) are notorious “carriers” of pests. They can be infected with little or no outward symptoms but the parasite explodes once it reaches the general fish population in your DT.

One possible “fail-safe” for an observation-only QT would be to acclimate a few black, fresh water mollies to saltwater, and add them with the fish you are observing. The black color makes parasites easier to spot and since they are freshwater fish they will have no resistance to whatever the fish in your QT might be carrying.

I just treat all of my fish for the most common parasites prophylactically and call it a day

 

[BeejReef]

You could always go with a more conservative approach and set up a QT that is basically a mini-DT with rock, sand etc. to observe new fish carefully and get them eating well without necessarily jumping right to medications.

You have to be hyper-vigilant, though, to ensure nothing sneaks through undetected; and even then some fish (like wrasses) are notorious “carriers” of pests. They can be infected with little or no outward symptoms but the parasite explodes once it reaches the general fish population in your DT.

One possible “fail-safe” for an observation-only QT would be to acclimate a few black, fresh water mollies to saltwater, and add them with the fish you are observing. The black color makes parasites easier to spot and since they are freshwater fish they will have no resistance to whatever the fish in your QT might be carrying.

I just treat all of my fish for the most common parasites prophylactically and call it a day

Thank you for all those excellent insights. That's what I was not quite comprehending... the difference between observational quarantine and preventative. I was thinking that if a particularly robust fish tolerated shipping and the stress of quarantine without exhibiting any symptoms throughout an observational quarantine, then, BANG, I've ruined my sterile tank with my first fish and all subsequent additions, QT'd or not, would be going out of the frying pan and into the fire.

 

[ngoodermuth]

That’s why I treat all incoming fish like they have everything. In most cases, they usually do anyway...

If you are really being careful... you can let your new tank run fishless with just your live rock, sand, and CUC for at least 76 days before adding fish... and then have another coral/invert QT where any new addition that is not a fish can sit for 76 days to ensure it’s pest-free as well.

If not, I would definitely make sure you dip all incoming corals and remove as much exposed skeleton and/or frag plug as possible before adding them to your tank to reduce the chance of an encysted hitch-hiker.

 

[Biglurr54]

I just set up my 20g long qt tank. It was dry and sterile. I filled the qt and put a hob filter. I poured in 1/2 a bottle of bio spira into the tank. I dosed copper power to 1.0 ppm and set the salinity to 1.018.

I am currently doing 4 gallon per day water changes because I may feeding heavily and I have an ammonia sensitive fish in the qt. I haven't noticed any ammonia yet but it's hard to tell.

The biggest key to my success with a qt is large daily water changes. It forces me to test the salinity temp and copper levels in the qt daily. Its also easy to remember because it's every single day. Thai provides the fish with clean healthy water, and my display gets a small water change daily.

Make everything easy on your self to do the water changes. Get a tube and a fiberglass driveway stake at home Depot. Zip tie a pice of the fiberglass to either end of the hose. One stick keeps the tube in the bucket. The other end acts as a handle in the tank.

Have two buckets and two gallon pitchers. One at qt and one at your display. After 2 or 3 days you will have your mixture of fresh water and salt water dialed in to get 1.018 and you will have a good process down. I can change my 4 gallons out of qt in about 5 minutes with no drips and no clean up.

 

[BeejReef]

I just set up my 20g long qt tank. It was dry and sterile. I filled the qt and put a hob filter. I poured in 1/2 a bottle of bio spira into the tank. I dosed copper power to 1.0 ppm and set the salinity to 1.018.

I am currently doing 4 gallon per day water changes because I may feeding heavily and I have an ammonia sensitive fish in the qt. I haven't noticed any ammonia yet but it's hard to tell.

The biggest key to my success with a qt is large daily water changes. It forces me to test the salinity temp and copper levels in the qt daily. Its also easy to remember because it's every single day. Thai provides the fish with clean healthy water, and my display gets a small water change daily.

Make everything easy on your self to do the water changes. Get a tube and a fiberglass driveway stake at home Depot. Zip tie a pice of the fiberglass to either end of the hose. One stick keeps the tube in the bucket. The other end acts as a handle in the tank.

Have two buckets and two gallon pitchers. One at qt and one at your display. After 2 or 3 days you will have your mixture of fresh water and salt water dialed in to get 1.018 and you will have a good process down. I can change my 4 gallons out of qt in about 5 minutes with no drips and no clean up.

Sounds like some serious trial and error has gone into developing that method Ty for the tip.

 

[Biglurr54]

Sounds like some serious trial and error has gone into developing that method Ty for the tip.

Plenty of trial and error. But now I feel confident to qt any fish.

I have a red Sea regal in qt right now. Doing great!

If my errors can help out other people then I'm happy.

Qting takes experience unfortunately. It's like hunting. The more time in the woods, the better Hunter you are. The more time with fish in qt, the better at it you will be.