Quarantine service? Would you pay?

[Reef Fever]

I always told myself if i ever open a store i will put a hold on all new fish that come into the store. Customers would be allowed to place a refundable deposit down on a fish they liked if it hadn't passed the quarantining period when they wanted it. Or they would be able to take the fish home before the QT period with no guarantees

 

[SeymourDuncan]

Jeesh that's no good. Do they take American Express? If i but something with my card and the store won't let me return it with a legit reason (broken item, wrong item, dead item) then I give the card company a call. They have the first option to just do a standard refund/return or if they want to combat it then i win double. I get to keep the item, get a refund, and they are SOL. Only problem with American Express...its the least accepted card in the US of A

 

[evolved]

You can't put special orders in at an LFS?

The average LFS can't get the actually rare things.

 

[zoechance]

I believe, as we have been discussing, quarantining a fish can/should be a payable service. I for one have been willing to pay for the fish wether it lives or dies in quarantine. i think that is only fair to the person offering the service. I know many of us have voiced that they dont trust anyone else to quarantine but I think doing this properly including medicating a fish that shows illness like ICH is for very advanced reefers (IMHO).

 

[SeymourDuncan]

Good point actually...most of us do not give our dogs shots...why should we be responsible for other animals? I have always thought it was strange that fish do not have the same treatment as most animals, especially being exotic.

 

[SeymourDuncan]

Would you, the reefers, be opposed to a quarantine tax that ensures the health of your livestock, leaving you only with the responsibility of making sure the fish gets over the transport stress?

 

[richfavinger]

We already do, it's called Divers Den... And to point out even Divers Den suggest YOU quarantine your fish, even if you buy their already quarantined fish.

 

[SeymourDuncan]

We already do, it's called Divers Den... And to point out even Divers Den suggest YOU quarantine your fish, even if you buy their already quarantined fish.

I'm talking brick and mortar places more like...a lot of places just cannot afford to. Buy sell buy sell...hurry up we need to sell more...that's what I see here anyways.

Divers den is only available to those who are willing to pay shipping...that's just too much money for a fish like a chromis or even a clownfish unless its a designer. I would love to order from the web if things were cheaper to ship. Its just more economical to go to the LFS...plus you can see things in person. Pictures, even truthful non-photoshopped ones, can be deceiving if you've never seen a particular animal in person to compare.

 

[richfavinger]

Keeping fish, heating fish, medicating fish... all costs money! Unless you plan to dedicate a facility to selling just QT fish your loosing money every day you keep that fish and feed it. - Considering I've always submitted a Den order above the minimum to receive free over-night shipping ($225+) - in which you could spend $75 a fish and $75 a coral... your well on your way... Even when I did buy coral or fish from a LFS, I rarely spent less then $150-$200 in one trip, considering my nearest true coral and SW store is an hour away.

As some one who has also attempted to breed freshwater angelfish (and did OK) having about 800g of stock in my basement... Keeping them warm and feeding them to get them large enough to sell to local shops was a killer... When you see them sell a fish for $7.99 and pay you $1.50... - The longer you keep a fish, the more it costs...

In the long run it comes down to... What are you willing to spend, and what risks are you willing to take. I've been in saltwater / reef for over 15 years. I am just now dealing with my first catastrophic major fish infection... If your willing to spend THOUSANDS on your main display... you can at least spend $200 and setup a quarantine.

Your average Joe Reefer, I'd bet would pick the $15 clown over the $30 quarantined clown... 9 out of 10 times...
And I'd bet 8 out of 10 times he'll be in the main display that night and not a 30-45 day quarantine...

 

[SeymourDuncan]

Well yeah, the average reefer will go cheaper when they can. They are the ones who would benefit from these types of services.

Think about the number of r2r members, then think about how many of them have tank builds posted. Only a fraction of those people are the big spenders.

Then you have the slow stocking theory: only add a little at a time. To save cash on shipping you have to ignore this theory if you go by it, which I also do. I'll add like 3 frags max or one big coral. I never add more than one fish (or pair, school etc) at a time.

Now if there was a LFS only QT tax budget this would help keep the overall cost down for such procedures, at least it seems to make cents (pun intended). After the initial QT, the fish would be healthy and wouldn't need any more attention. People could put holds on livestock in holding and even get the chance to see how to quarantine in person, which really would make it easier than reading 20 thousand different techniques and getting bummed out in confusion. Again, just theories. In college I took government and business classes and got A's. I'm just putting that knowledge together here...

I'm not saying I would want the government in control of pet stores at all, but there was a lot of budget and tax stuff that can apply to this.

Now let me ask you this to help revise my thinking once again:
How much $$$ (on average) does it cost to quarantine and medicate one fish?

 

[Railcar79]

Well let's start out square 1, no sale prices, ordering online.
Tank $30
Light $30
Salt mix $30
Heater $20
Pvc fittings $10
Test kit $25
Medications $30
Air pump $25
Filter $20
And with water changes $30
Powerhead $20

That is figuring a 20 long. Add in food call it $275. Not counting power.

 

[SeymourDuncan]

Ok so $275 for the home aquarist.
Now put all that in wholesale prices, or even used prices, what's markup on average? Around here it is 40%, so lets say $140ish for a pet store, which they probably can set up for less, and PVC can be recycled from old plumbing and what not

Then take into account how many fish you quarantine reasonably in that tank. This will reduce the ppf (price per fish). Lets go with 5 small clownfish. That cuts the cost to about $28 per fish? Roughly $1/day per 5 fish? Am calculating that right?

 

[evolved]

Well let's start out square 1, no sale prices, ordering online.
Tank $30
Light $30
Salt mix $30
Heater $20
Pvc fittings $10
Test kit $25
Medications $30
Air pump $25
Filter $20
And with water changes $30
Powerhead $20

That is figuring a 20 long. Add in food call it $275. Not counting power.

I've successfully performed 7-8 week QTs on wrasses in a 10g tank with a HOB filter, no other equipment. Total cost was forty some dollars. It doesn't have to be that expensive by any means. A Rubbermaid tote would work just the same.

 

[Railcar79]

I've successfully performed 7-8 week QTs on wrasses in a 10g tank with a HOB filter, no other equipment. Total cost was forty some dollars. It doesn't have to be that expensive by any means. A Rubbermaid tote would work just the same.

And that is the problem, there are so many ways to qt and each species have different requirements. To qt a tang, angel, ect costs more than a wrasse or a chromis. The figures I provided were retail, not reusing existing equipment, or owning rodi. I am sure that qt your 10 gal you used a test kit, salt, and water from your rodi already on hand.

 

[Palting]

I've successfully performed 7-8 week QTs on wrasses in a 10g tank with a HOB filter, no other equipment. Total cost was forty some dollars. It doesn't have to be that expensive by any means. A Rubbermaid tote would work just the same.

Same here.

20 gallon = $20
HOB filter = $25, (biomedia usually sits in sump awaiting use)
Incandescent shop light with grease on it from the garage = Free
Discard water from DT = Free
Food: whatever I have, I just use = 5 bucks?

So, QT cost for me to start-up = $40

QT maintenance after start up for subsequent fish?
Discard water from DT = Free
Food = 5 bucks?

So, discounting electricity, QT cost for subsequent use = $5.00

 

[SeymourDuncan]

I've QT'd in a milk jug with an aqualifter before when I got a bunch of hermit crabs. It works....just as long as you keep the jug in a shallow part of your sump so it doesn't float or spill and it will keep the temp stable like floating a bag. Just sanitize the outside of it. Change the water every couple days. 2 liters may work better for small sumps. That is as cheap as it gets

 

[Railcar79]

I would be willing to bet that a lfs, dealing in quantity of scale could qt fish for around $0.50 a day, or $28 added cost on average. Smaller fish for less larger fish for more, but that would be a rough average. But more important to the average home aquarist not the die hard reef junkies is the time. If doing prophalytic treatments your cu gets too low, start over. If it goes too high you killed the fish and start over. Ever notice how live Aquaria guarntee does not even cover the full qt time for a fish? With a store front, there are employees who are there to monitor the tank all day. People who do it often enough that they become proficent. I speak from expierence in saying that qt can be daunting. Watch for ammonia, test water daily, if ammonia climbs (tang in a 20 long can spike ammonia in no time) water change. Dose the water before adding to maintain levels. Matching all the parameters for an average end user is a bit intimidating. Many die hard reef junkies forget not everyone can dedicate the same time and money to their tanks. I am home for 2 days or so every 2 weeks. I leave my wife in charge when I am gone, and she is scared of the process. If you kill a chromis, you are out like $8. Kill a purple tang, you are out $200.

 

[Railcar79]

Bottom line I would rather spend $50 more on a $100+ fish to have qt done for me, and try to do that $25 clown on my own.

 

[SeymourDuncan]

So in a place of lesser quality pet stores would you suggest making large online purchases over smaller local ones, considering $$$ and time to treat local bought fish compared to the speed and higher $$$ of a safe online vendor who's livestock just needs a chill period pre-display?

 

[Railcar79]

I buy my fish wherever I find them. I would rather go to Petco over my local store (local store is that bad). I buy what I have to online, or from club members. In my tank I have 1 fish and a star from Petco, cuc from reefcleaners. All the coral and fish are from members in my club that sold them to me after qt on their end. And yes I do pay premium to have that done for me.