Quarantine Tank Questions.

blouden08 · Dec 4, 2014

Hello. I Have just recently started up in the saltwater world. Tons to know and tons to always learn. So. That being said. I brief about my tank. I currently Have a 29g Fish only. Have about a 2 in sand, 40lb of live rock. HOB CPR skimmer, and 50 aquaflow filter. After my tank cycled I added one at a time, 6 line, Singapore Angle. The singapore was in here cause I am currently cycling live rock and sand in my 75g. That is a build in process. Making the mistake I did not QT the fish. BUT my two fish never had any health issues. No stress. They was happy. Ate like monsters. Singapore attacked the garlic seaweed and the wrase ate anything it could find. Then we got a shapr nosed puffer. BIG mistake. We did not research the fish enough and did not QT the fish due to not knowing enough about QT tanks yet. Well he stressed out. Did not eat much and then came the ICH. Yup the rookie mistake outbreak. Well the puffer was the first to go. In a rush to save the other two I went and got a 10g (all could afford at the time) heater and old filter 20 aquaclear filter. Well I read and read and read about qt tank and ICH. It was copper, dont use copper, use this, dont use this do hyposalinity, dont do hypo just feed it....yada yada. Well. I am now with outfish

Now I have a main 30g tank sitting with my cleaner crew in it and going to be that way for the next 8 weeks to let the ICH DIE DIE IDE. SO....here are my 2 part questions.

1. I am going to get a 20 l QT tank. More water, more room, and hopefully control the Nitrite and Ammonia, and PH little better. Oh and I have an air stone to help.... My question is this. Do I pre treat with copper to get any ICH already on the fish that WILL be on it from the LFS. I read people say to medicate the fish if needed but to leave the fish in the QT for 4-6 weeks and watch it and make it happy. But What I have read is that ICH is on the fish from the start but if healthy and not stressed it wont break out. But still have the chance too if gets stressed even if been in the QT for 4-6 weeks if I am reading this right. So do I do a pre Copper treatment to get rid of any LFS parasites or issues it could have from there. NOW question 2.

2. IF I do pre treat with coper. I read the bottle and follow directions and do a 2-4 week treatment....just throwing that out there...out of my 6 week QT. Now on the 4th week. Do i add carbon to my filter to start getting the copper out of the water....that I dont get when I am doing my water changes of every other day or daily depending on levels. Again I have read and read but I have read nothing on how to clean the fish of copper before putting it in my DT. I seen people say they did the copper then took the fish and did the drip and then took the fish out of the bucket and put in their tank. Would the fish not still have copper on its body? So in the last two weeks. I am doing carbon in my filter to get the copper out. Water changes to get the copper out. OR do I have to do some kind of clean water dip before putting it in my tank. I plan on putting corals in my 75g when I have got all i need lights and equipment to make them grow, but I dont want to kill the corals if I am putting copper in my water from being on the fish from the QT tank. I will look more into how to QT corals cause that is a whooooole other question I have lol. Ok. Long enough rant....question....IDK what this is. But I just have read so much on QT on how to start it.....but not middle or end of the process. Its like a book in the middle of being writen and your waiting for the good stuff to happen but left in limbo.

Thanks.

If I miss anything to help answer this please let me know. And I will do my best to fill in what I missed.

pdiehm · Dec 4, 2014

I'm new, just like you.

My plan for QT is as follows.

2 10 gallon tanks
1 20 gallon long tank

The 2 10's are for something called tank transfer method, which is to eradicate the ICH parasites over a series of transfers (every 72 hours) from 1 10 gallon to the next. Cleaning/drying the 10 gallon, all the equipment used. Once the fish go through 4 transfers, they will be moved to a permanent QT tank (20 gallon long), where they will go through 2 treatments of Prazipro.

I know many people say don't treat fish pro-actively, wait until they show signs...but I'm spending the money, and like to nip things before they occur. The transport/introduction is stressful for these guys. My thinking is to treat proactively for common diseases that the particular fish may get.

TJ's Reef · Dec 4, 2014

You are certainly in the majority of being confused as to all the different directions to advice on QT or treatment of Ich. IMHO and IME would never not treat new incoming Fish with either a full copper or hypo-salinity regimen. Once again in my opinion would prioritize treatment options this way, IF fish look, act and eat well then proceed with a hypo treatment (less damaging/stressful overall) IF fish look (visible signs of parasite) or act like there is something wrong (scratching, heavy breathing, choffing of gills etc...) then proceed to a full copper treatment.

As for removing copper and its potential ill effects to Coral down the road: regular water changes after the 15 day treatment period will safely remove any toxic levels. GAC/Carbon after the 15 days will help with general water quality and help remove copper a bit. The one very important part of proper copper treatment is to be very accurate in amount of water changed as to replace the correct amount of copper to keep it at its effective level (not over or under dose). You may with caution have to proceed to copper even while into the hypo treatment if the fish start to show signs of heavy Ich infestation. You need to slowly bring S.G. up back into the 1.017 - 1.019 range for best results.

In QT's I strongly suggest to decorate (for fishes comfort) with PVC fittings and FW plastic plants weighted with inert material like silicone applied marbles etc... If you are going to QT a Wrasse that requires a sand bed use a fine silicate sand (often black) not Coral based if possible and place it into a plastic or glass dish/tub.

Hope this helps you a bit.

Cheers, Todd

Saltwater on the brain · Dec 5, 2014

Wouldn't a fresh water dip (done correctly) suffice for eradicating pretty much all parasites including ich and flukes? Then into the DT they go worry free...right?

I had an outbreak of ich a month ago, no QT or freshwater dip....wiped out most of my fish...fortunately a sailfin tang and my cardinals survived...seems they naturally fought it off. Haven't seen one speck of "white dots" on them since. Did get a UV sterilizer and some Dr G's medicated caviar though.

Just seems that a freshwater dip seems like it would be the most logical way of keeping parasites out of the DT.

Dalmatia · Dec 6, 2014

A dip would be helpful but it won't do the trick, just qt your new livestock and you'll save lots of money and frustration, never mind your tank will be clean of pests. I personally treat every fish I get
I think you already have a battle going on....

Saltwater on the brain · Dec 6, 2014

Dalmatia said:
A dip would be helpful but it won't do the trick, just qt your new livestock and you'll save lots of money and frustration, never mind your tank will be clean of pests. I personally treat every fish I get
I think you already have a battle going on....

Can you explain why it won't do the trick?

Dalmatia · Dec 7, 2014

Here read,,

many professionl aquaria routinely treat for marine parasites via a brief fresehwater dip for ALL incoming speciments... ...Cheung et.al. (1979b) found that 35% of the tomonts maintained*in vitro*at 37, 20, and 7Â°C ruptured (S = 16%); at 30Â° and 25Â°C only 30% ruptured (S = 8%). None of the tomonts developed normally at either diluton.Â¹

Colorni (1985) tested the salinity tolerance of*Cryptocaron irritans*at 0 to 60% salinity in increments of 5%. Dilutiuons were made with dechlorinated tap water; saliniries >40 PPT were attained by evaporation (of seawater).*In vitro*evaluations involved three factors: time to encystment of trophonts, survival time of tomites, and time to excystment of tomonts. Tomonts were maintqined at 27Â°C for 3, 6, 12, and 48 hours before the test solutions were were replaced with seawater (40 ppt). The test fish was the Gilthead Bream, a species that tolerates a wide range of salinities (in nature-tdw). For the*in vivo*evaluation, infected fish were acclimated to different salinities, then examined for trophonts. Trophonts were able to encyst at all salinities between 15 and 60PPT, but tomites excysted only from tomonts naintained between 25 and 50 PPT (salinities-TDW). Time to excystment varied widely. Under identical conditions of temperature and salinity, maximum time to excystment was 17 days (40PTT), 13 days (30 and 35PPT), and 25 days (25PPT). At 25PPT some did not emerge for 28 days. Tomonts could tolerate 70 PPT for 1 week and 20PPT for 48 hours without loss of viability when the test solutions were replaced with seawater. Some excystment occurred in tomonts kept a 15PPT for 24 hours. Between 0 and 10 PPT, the tomonts often ruptured, and all were killed within this salinity range if exposed for three hours. Trophonts in the*in vivo*experiments survived even freshwater emersion for 18 hours. If the host was then transferred to seawater, the trophonts encysted, developed, and produced tomites.Â²

Cheung, et.al.,(1979b) experimentally infected mummichogs*(estuarine killfishes). Serial dilutions of seawater(@S=31PPT) with distilled water at ratios of 1, 0.5, and 0.33 which all resulted in cures within 6 days (i.e., no signs of disease reappeared within 25 Days). Embedded trophonts and tomonts were both eradicated.Â³ Colorni (1985) found during*in vitro*experiments that if the salinity were reduced to 10PPT for 3 hours four times in succession at 3 day intervals, some tomonts were distroyed each time. Fish subjected to this treatment were rendered free of infection in 5 to 8 days. Elimination of*C. irritans*could be acheived within 10 days by transferring the fish to other aquariums, then drying and cleaning the infected aquarium. Four transfers at 3 day intervals were required.

miyags · Dec 7, 2014

blouden08, setting up a QT is the first and best thing you can do in this hobby. I treat all fish with cupramine and prazipro. No more gambling with the lives of these fish. I haven't lost a fish since I started treating with cupramine and prazipro. You'll be so glad you started your QT tank.

rworegon · Dec 8, 2014

I personally qt each and every new fish I get. I learned this lesson the hard way. The QT period is 6 weeks. No less.
When a fish finally arrives at your LFS it has gone through so many stressful situations, from being caught in the ocean, held in a transfer facility, stuffed into a shipping bag and transshipped to a wholesaler, stuck in another holding facility, stuffed in another shipping bag, shipped to your local LFS, may or may not get a fresh water or medicated dip and dumped into a display tank with too many tankmates for the size of tank ready for sale. The fish has probably not eaten much in this time and is weak, disoriented, confused, and very stressed.

By putting the fish into a QT, I am giving it time to de-stress, start eating again without competition for food, rebuild its slime coat, rebuild its immune system, and also show me if it has parasites, flukes, velvet, or any other of a number of nasty things that can kill every other fish in my show tank.

My QT is just a 10 gal with a hang on the back filter, a heater, a couple of PVC fittings, a bowl of sand if its a wrasse, and maybe a chunk of liverock, that will never see a reef tank, if I have on sitting around. This helps with herbivores that like to pick algae off rock. You can strap nori sheets to the rock with rubber bands. This will get the fish used to grazing.

I have lost a couple of fish in this process but I fear I would lose far more without it.

I know this is a subject that brings out more than its fair share of heated debates but just about every reputable dealer will tell you to quarantine your fish, every public aquarium quarantines their new fish, every industry expert will tell you to quarantine your new fish. Who am I to argue. After all, I'm just a hobbyist.

Dalmatia · Dec 8, 2014

rworegon said:
I personally qt each and every new fish I get. I learned this lesson the hard way. The QT period is 6 weeks. No less.
When a fish finally arrives at your LFS it has gone through so many stressful situations, from being caught in the ocean, held in a transfer facility, stuffed into a shipping bag and transshipped to a wholesaler, stuck in another holding facility, stuffed in another shipping bag, shipped to your local LFS, may or may not get a fresh water or medicated dip and dumped into a display tank with too many tankmates for the size of tank ready for sale. The fish has probably not eaten much in this time and is weak, disoriented, confused, and very stressed.

By putting the fish into a QT, I am giving it time to de-stress, start eating again without competition for food, rebuild its slime coat, rebuild its immune system, and also show me if it has parasites, flukes, velvet, or any other of a number of nasty things that can kill every other fish in my show tank.

My QT is just a 10 gal with a hang on the back filter, a heater, a couple of PVC fittings, a bowl of sand if its a wrasse, and maybe a chunk of liverock, that will never see a reef tank, if I have on sitting around. This helps with herbivores that like to pick algae off rock. You can strap nori sheets to the rock with rubber bands. This will get the fish used to grazing.

I have lost a couple of fish in this process but I fear I would lose far more without it.

I know this is a subject that brings out more than its fair share of heated debates but just about every reputable dealer will tell you to quarantine your fish, every public aquarium quarantines their new fish, every industry expert will tell you to quarantine your new fish. Who am I to argue. After all, I'm just a hobbyist.