Question about a QT..

[robbrouse]

I've got my set up and going to be adding my first fish soon.. How many people add meds to start with and how many just observe and decide later? I'm wondering if I should treat if there nothing to treat for.

Any advise would be great.

 

[Deinonych]

I always proactively treat now. Two rounds of PraziPro followed by 4 weeks of chloroquine phosphate, then 2-3 weeks of observation. I have had to deal with ich in my DT so I will no longer risk reintroducing it.

 

[jschultzbass]

You'll hear both sides on this one. People like Bob Fenner are usually against treating for the sake of treating. Some are for treating fish like tangs that are prone to ich even if you see no signs. Some people treat with at least Prazi no matter what and then copper or something else if fish comes down with ich. Some don't treat at all if there are no signs of any disease. Personally I treat tangs no matter what (they usually can handle copper like champs) and observe all other fish and only treat if necessary. It is a call you're going to have to make. I'm sure you'll get plenty of opinions in this thread.

 

[robbrouse]

chloroquine phosphate what brand do you use?

 

[Deinonych]

You'll hear both sides on this one. People like Bob Fenner are usually against treating for the sake of treating. Some are for treating fish like tangs that are prone to ich even if you see no signs. Some people treat with at least Prazi no matter what and then copper or something else if fish comes down with ich. Some don't treat at all if there are no signs of any disease. Personally I treat tangs no matter what (they usually can handle copper like champs) and observe all other fish and only treat if necessary. It is a call you're going to have to make. I'm sure you'll get plenty of opinions in this thread.

+1

I used to be in the "treat only for disease" camp, but I've come to realize that fish can be asymptomatically carrying parasites that would go unnoticed by observation alone. Having to catch all of my fish and letting my DT go fallow for 12 weeks is an experience I never want to go through again. I agree that it's a decision that each individual aquarist needs to make for themselves.

 

[Deinonych]

chloroquine phosphate what brand do you use?

I purchased it directly from Alfa Aesar (Alfa Aesar - A Johnson Matthey Company), a chemical supply company. You could also get a vet to write a script for you. I initially did that and had it filled at a local compounding pharmacy.

 

[robbrouse]

IS Seachem Cupramine considered a good treatment for copper?

 

[ChristopherKriens]

What I do is introduce the fish and make sure sure that it's eating before adding any medications. Unless you have a finicky species, this should only take a day or two at most. I've learned to make sure they're eating before adding medications because some medications negatively affect appetite and if this turns out to be the case, it's good to know that a quick water change should induce feeding again.

Once the fish is eating and not showing symptoms of anything else, I treat prophylactically with PraziPro for the first week. This is a stress-free and effective treatment for flukes. This is a good time to observe and try to identify any disease or infection, trouble acclimating to captive life, and training to eat various prepared foods.

If all is well after the first week, I do a large water change and do another round of PraziPro, which is recommended to rid the fish of any flukes that may have been eggs in the first stage. I also start 1/2 dose of Cupramine the following day. I've learned the hard way to treat for crypto​caryon and amyloodinium regardless of visible symptoms. There are possible long term effects to the fish when treating with copper, so this is something you'll have to decide on your own. 48 hours after the first dose of Cupramine, I administer the second 1/2 dose and hold for 3 weeks. After that I'm confident enough to add to the display tank.

This is my ideal regiment for a fish that doesn't show unexpected symptoms. Obviously problems arise and you may have to adapt.

 

[Deinonych]

IS Seachem Cupramine considered a good treatment for copper?

Yes. It seems to be the most gentle on the fish. I second ChristopherKriens about long-term use of copper. When I use it, I ramp up the dose slowly over 5 days to 0.35 - 0.40mg/l and hold it there for 4 weeks. IME, Seachem's dosing instructions are too aggressive, and I have had fish respond poorly to rapid introduction of copper (i.e. not eating). I also feel that 0.50mg/l is too high, hence my using a lower concentration. Anything over 0.30mg/l is considered a therapeutic dose if memory serves.

 

[robbrouse]

Very good.. I'm guessing if you have to do a water change do do spikes you bring the copper lever back to the 0.35.. Do an ammo blacker take care of water changes. Will they help the process.

Sorry this is something I have never done before.

Robb

 

[ChristopherKriens]

Do an ammo blacker take care of water changes. Will they help the process.

Robb, you'll have to replace the copper that's removed in water changes. It's important to steer clear of ammonia binders (Prime, etc.) when using copper. Cupramine can be reduced to Cu+ which is 10x more toxic and often results in dead fish.

 

[Deinonych]

Robb, you'll have to replace the copper that's removed in water changes. It's important to steer clear of ammonia binders (Prime, etc.) when using copper. Cupramine can be reduced to Cu+ which is 10x more toxic and often results in dead fish.

+1

Also, remember to add the copper to the new water BEFORE you put it in the aquarium. Don't want to give cryptocaryon tomites/theronts any chance to infect.

 

[robbrouse]

This is the info I was looking for. Thank you for taking the time to answer question from a new time Quarantine person. I have no issues with daily water changes. I will be QTing a Kole Yellow Eyed tang and want to do it right. I hear they get ick real easy and don't want to harm my tank or the fish.

 

[Deinonych]

Good luck! If you're super OCD like I am, here's a handy formula for dosing Cupramine. Only catch is that you need to know the exact volume of your aquarium. Most aquarium volumes differ from the stated volume, e.g. my 20g holds just shy of 19g when filled. I fill with exactly 18g and mark the water line with a wax pencil so I can keep it steady during treatment.

(.381) * (strength of dose) * (gallons being treated) = mL of Cupramine to dose

Example: (.381) * (.5mg/L) * (10.5 gallons) = 2mL of Cupramine to dose

 

[jschultzbass]

Excellent information Chris and Chris!

 

[robbrouse]

I decided I was going to cycle my QT.. I did not want to screw up the copper treatment.

Another question..

If I keep this tank running for a while after I do my first quarantine, do I need to wash all the equipment? I will be treating cooper? So I just ghost feed the tank to keep it cycled? And then it will be read for the next fish I buy?

Robb from Utah.

 

[stunreefer Verified Sponsor]

Good info here... it's important to note that no fish should be put directly into meds. They should be given time to settle in and start feeding; not necessarily voraciously (although ideal), but enough to get some calories into them. Some meds decrease appetite and fish with little fat reserves will not make it through a treatment.

If I keep this tank running for a while after I do my first quarantine, do I need to wash all the equipment? I will be treating cooper? So I just ghost feed the tank to keep it cycled? And then it will be read for the next fish I buy?

Personally, if there's enough time between using QT tanks then I'll just let it run. If I have fish coming in quickly after moving some fish through QT I bleach everything, fill with fresh SW and use a bottled beneficial bacteria to seed filter.

 

[robbrouse]

Personally, if there's enough time between using QT tanks then I'll just let it run. If I have fish coming in quickly after moving some fish through QT I bleach everything, fill with fresh SW and use a bottled beneficial bacteria to seed filter.

What do you consider enough time?

And I was think 3 to 5 days before started meds.. Think this is long enough.

 

[Deinonych]

I usually give new arrivals around 5 days before I start treating. In most cases, new fish are eating well by the second day in QT, so I use the next few days to fatten them up in preparation for treatment.

 

[bamaborn81]

How many fish can you treat at one time. My first tank here and I was planning on getting 2 clowns as my first fish. Would a 10 gal QT do me for that?