Everywhere I read says tank will cycle even when I see people using live rock and sand. I never had a testable ammonia spike when I started my tank 4 months ago. I started with 120 lbs of live rock and 80 lbs of live sand in a 155 bow. LFS said I would not have one and I did not that I know of. Is this correct that if you start w good live rock and sand there will be no noticeable cycle?
Question about cycling
- Thread starter brian.snell.3
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jent
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If the rock is already cycled and there is no die off, you wont see a cycle.
To truly test if your tank is cycled though you should add an ammonia source and see what happens (you should see it traverse to nitrite and then nitrate very quickly). This could be a rotting shrimp, or a pure ammonium chloride solution. The ammonium chloride is what I would use since it is more controllable (don't add too much).
To truly test if your tank is cycled though you should add an ammonia source and see what happens (you should see it traverse to nitrite and then nitrate very quickly). This could be a rotting shrimp, or a pure ammonium chloride solution. The ammonium chloride is what I would use since it is more controllable (don't add too much).
jent
Active Member
Ohhh, I see, haha. Well unless you detect the ammonia spike, and see it go away (quickly), you can never be absolutely sure. Nitrification bacteria fit a nitch in the ecosystem, and like all living things they need a source of energy/input.
So say for example you have fully cycled rock, but then go a long period without any ammonia sources. The bacteria colonies will reach equilibrium and reduce. So that rock is no longer cycled.
If your taking rock from a working system, it likely will be fine. With that said, no matter what the stage the rock is in, this is why it's important to slowly add ammonia sources (fish, etc). So that the bacteria populations can continue to expand with the bioload.
So say for example you have fully cycled rock, but then go a long period without any ammonia sources. The bacteria colonies will reach equilibrium and reduce. So that rock is no longer cycled.
If your taking rock from a working system, it likely will be fine. With that said, no matter what the stage the rock is in, this is why it's important to slowly add ammonia sources (fish, etc). So that the bacteria populations can continue to expand with the bioload.
brian.snell.3
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On that note why do reefers acid bath rock before cycling it when it has a lot die off in it already. I would think that would be a bing chunk of dormant bacteria and ammonia source. I've been cycling a bunch of dry rock from a friends old system and threw it in a tank cycled the tank and now at 5 weeks I have coraline growing on rock already and tank is stable.
jent
Active Member
The reason for the acid bath is because when that die off rots, it's giving you more than ammonia. Primarily what people are trying to avoid is the phosphate that the rotting die off is going to pollute the water with.
By using ammonium chloride your able to add ammonia without the other chemicals that would be released from die off.
The other issue is that depending on how much die off there is, the amount of ammonia released may be MASSIVE. So much so that it may cause the cycle to be much longer than it really needed to be. By using ammonium chloride your able to control exactly how much ammonia your adding to the system, making sure it's just the right ammount.
By using ammonium chloride your able to add ammonia without the other chemicals that would be released from die off.
The other issue is that depending on how much die off there is, the amount of ammonia released may be MASSIVE. So much so that it may cause the cycle to be much longer than it really needed to be. By using ammonium chloride your able to control exactly how much ammonia your adding to the system, making sure it's just the right ammount.
beaslbob
2500 Club Member
To me if there is sufficient macros and algae on the rock them you will get a silent cycle just like in FW planted tanks. The algae consumes the "extra" ammonia during the cycle preventing the spikes.
my .02
You have to have an Ammonia source in order to start the cycle off. Using Live Rock, usually it has some die off, and this starts the cycle. Others will use Jumbo Shrimp from the grocery store, and toss it in the tank, as it decays this is the ammonia source. And yet some others will add straight ammonia to the tank, of which needs to keep dosing until the tank is fully cycled, as just adding it once usually doesn't create enough Nitrates in the tank to sustain much at the beginning.
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brian.snell.3
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Isn't the entire point of a cycle to get a bacteria population. So if I use live rock live sand and add a cuc and maybe small fish and feeding there really won't be a cycle. As the rock and sand have the bacteria. Just trying to understand if what my experience was is normal. I since cycled a at tank so I knew how cycle went but never had a cycle in DT.
Only if the sand used is Live Sand, and the Live Rock was Fully Cured Rock. Then those items would already have enough bacteria to sustain livestock. If its not cured it will have die off, which will bloom ammonia, to much for the L.S. to handle.
