Question about Dino’s

[yanni]

I’m fairly new to saltwater aquariums but have seen these pesky algae, Dino’s, mentioned quite often in various discussions. So I have a question....

how common are they? Is everyone bound to get them? Are there sure fire ways to avoid them?
Kind regards, yanni

 

[Quietman]

Common but no, you're not guaranteed to get them, like diatoms. The thinking in hte hobby lately seems to be keeping your nitrate and phosphate detectable. I had an outbreak and always had detectable NO3 and PO4 and had good maintenance routine. Again, it's just the common wisdom last couple of years on how to prevent dino - not a guarantee and I definitely keep my NO3/PO4 in the detectable range even though it didn't work for me. You got to play the percentages in this game.

 

[yanni]

So, as a noob so to speak, what are the best preventative measures to take?

Common but no, you're not guaranteed to get them, like diatoms. The thinking in hte hobby lately seems to be keeping your nitrate and phosphate detectable. I had an outbreak and always had detectable NO3 and PO4 and had good maintenance routine. Again, it's just the common wisdom last couple of years on how to prevent dino - not a guarantee and I definitely keep my NO3/PO4 in the detectable range even though it didn't work for me. You got to play the percentages in this game.

 

[Quietman]

Well like I said...keep NO3 and PO4 detectable (don't go below 1 ppm nitrate, but being new until you get nutrient control dialed in I'd go with 3 ppm minimum and maybe high as 10ppm. Don't go below 0.03 ppm phosphate - again, if I were you starting out, I'd keep it a bit higher <.1 ppm until you have the phosphate control dialed in. Most test kits can't detect levels below accurately below that 1 ppm NO3 and .03 ppm PO4.

You can run nutrients higher (10/.1 NO3/PO4) and be fine until you start with more sensitive corals (and maybe after - you'll see tons of discussions on nutrients).

You can also dose NO3 (but until you have a handle on your system, I'd hold off on that until far down the road and you're trying to achieve specific things.

If you go really low at the start, you have no lee way if you add too much GFO or carbon dose a bit heavy. Higher nutrients may mean some algae, but to me a little algae that's there, but no overly visible is fine (just maturing tank) and much, much better than dinos which can wipe out a tank. Just manually remove it, get a CUC (tang if tank big enough) and if starts being more visible, dial down the nutrients nice and slow.

Good luck!

 

[yanni]

T

Well like I said...keep NO3 and PO4 detectable (don't go below 1 ppm nitrate, but being new until you get nutrient control dialed in I'd go with 3 ppm minimum and maybe high as 10ppm. Don't go below 0.03 ppm phosphate - again, if I were you starting out, I'd keep it a bit higher <.1 ppm until you have the phosphate control dialed in. Most test kits can't detect levels below accurately below that 1 ppm NO3 and .03 ppm PO4.

You can run nutrients higher (10/.1 NO3/PO4) and be fine until you start with more sensitive corals (and maybe after - you'll see tons of discussions on nutrients).

You can also dose NO3 (but until you have a handle on your system, I'd hold off on that until far down the road and you're trying to achieve specific things.

If you go really low at the start, you have no lee way if you add too much GFO or carbon dose a bit heavy. Higher nutrients may mean some algae, but to me a little algae that's there, but no overly visible is fine (just maturing tank) and much, much better than dinos which can wipe out a tank. Just manually remove it, get a CUC (tang if tank big enough) and if starts being more visible, dial down the nutrients nice and slow.

Good luck!

hank you so much. One more question, why a Tang? Do they like feeding off of algae?

 

[Quietman]

T

hank you so much. One more question, why a Tang? Do they like feeding off of algae?

Yes. But they do require lots of room. I don't have the room for one at 44 gallons, but some blennies, snails (depending on algae), crabs, conchs....the list of CUC and what each does is long and easy to find on here and elsewhere.

 

[yanni]

A

Yes. But they do require lots of room. I don't have the room for one at 44 gallons, but some blennies, snails (depending on algae), crabs, conchs....the list of CUC and what each does is long and easy to find on here and elsewhere.

hh okay, I’m going to have a 35 Gallon tank for two clowns and a nem, so not sure how a tang might fit in

 

[saltyhog]

Yeah, that's not a big enough tank for a tang.

It appears that biodiversity is the best prevention for dinos. Multi-source live rock additions would be one good way to achieve that. Of course maintaining detectable NO3 and PO4 as @Quietman said is really important as well.

There is some thought that dinoflagellates my (at least some of them) be extruded zooxantellae from corals. Regardless, I believe they are present in all tanks but become problematic under the right conditions.

 

[yanni]

Yeah, that's not a big enough tank for a tang.

It appears that biodiversity is the best prevention for dinos. Multi-source live rock additions would be one good way to achieve that. Of course maintaining detectable NO3 and PO4 as @Quietman said is really important as well.

There is some thought that dinoflagellates my (at least some of them) be extruded zooxantellae from corals. Regardless, I believe they are present in all tanks but become problematic under the right conditions.

Ahh okay, well for a 35 gallon with two clowns and a nem, what else could I safely add for the clowns and biodiversity?

 

[saltyhog]

Ahh okay, well for a 35 gallon with two clowns and a nem, what else could I safely add for the clowns and biodiversity?

As above live rock (if you have a sump that would be a good place for it) from multiple sources, bacterial cultures, dosing phyto are a few that come to mind. Also keep your nutrients detectable to promote that diversity........nutrient deprived conditions give dinos a competitive advantage.

 

[yanni]

As above live rock (if you have a sump that would be a good place for it) from multiple sources, bacterial cultures, dosing phyto are a few that come to mind. Also keep your nutrients detectable to promote that diversity........nutrient deprived conditions give dinos a competitive advantage.

Okay, does dosing phyto have any negative effects on the tank?

 

[zalick]

Dinos are definitely not a guarantee. I've been doing this 23 years and had never heard of dinos until a few years ago. I decided to run an ultra low nutrient system and wham, I got dinos bad.

All the advice above is fantastic. I blame running heavy GFO and undetectable phosphates and nitrates on my dino outbreak. Whether true or not, I don't know, but I'm sticking with that!

Good luck, go slow and have fun!

 

[saltyhog]

Okay, does dosing phyto have any negative effects on the tank?

It can raise nutrient levels....especially NO3. It's not difficult to monitor and adjust dosing to keep it from being a problem. When I was treating dinos I dosed almost every day. Now maybe once or twice a week.

Dinos are definitely not a guarantee. I've been doing this 23 years and had never heard of dinos until a few years ago. I decided to run an ultra low nutrient system and wham, I got dinos bad.

All the advice above is fantastic. I blame running heavy GFO and undetectable phosphates and nitrates on my dino outbreak. Whether true or not, I don't know, but I'm sticking with that!

Good luck, go slow and have fun!

Sounds very much like my story and many that I've encountered. I got a little cavalier with GFO and bottomed out my PO4 which was the trigger for my dinos.

I really think the prevalence now is also partly due to the much larger number of people using dry rock only for tanks rather than real live rock.

 

[jstabile316]

If you get dinos just add another fish to the tank, don’t over feed to raise nutrients that usually causes other problems

 

[Quietman]

There is UV. It's a bit controversial but want isn't ? I credit it with controlling my dinos finally. Still run it and when I stop or dial down the flow too much, there they are again. They'll always be in my tank and I'll always have UV. Another tank...another UV, it's that important to me.

Couple caveats though...

The organism has to have a life cycle phase in the water column (not all dinos do, mine evidently did). The UV has to be good quality with sufficient size and flow to kill or damage the target.

Not going into UV in great detail here. There's plenty out there. It is an option to be considered and I definitely consider them preventative for my tanks.