Question about refugium placement

[Murica]

I'm going to be completely re doing my sump. Instead of being under my tank, I'm going to run pvc to my basement, attach to sump, then shoot back to my tank via an external pump (way more head height for the price).

I purchased a 150 gallon polyethylene tub which is going to act as a huge refugium.. Still under construction, but I'm going to incorporate my current trigger sump into it. My question is for the most efficient use, should I have the DT water first go into my refugium so CUC and macro can take care of it, then get polished off with filter socks and skimmer, or reverse that and have the sump first then refugium?

 

[pijao81]

I'm just curious if you really need to move the sump to the basement.. I don't know what impact will have that on the temperature of the water going there and back.. And of course in your electricity bill too due to Heating the water. If the room temperature of the basement is much different than where the DT is.

Of course you know better your installation.. I'm just pointing some thing from a friend experience.

In my sump I have the water coming to the filter sock. Then the skimmer, then goes through refugium and then back to the DT. Until now no phosphate problem.

 

[Flippers4pups]

I'm going to be completely re doing my sump. Instead of being under my tank, I'm going to run pvc to my basement, attach to sump, then shoot back to my tank via an external pump (way more head height for the price).

I purchased a 150 gallon polyethylene tub which is going to act as a huge refugium.. Still under construction, but I'm going to incorporate my current trigger sump into it. My question is for the most efficient use, should I have the DT water first go into my refugium so CUC and macro can take care of it, then get polished off with filter socks and skimmer, or reverse that and have the sump first then refugium?

I'd do it like your first suggestion. Reugium then sump.

 

[Raising Reef.]

If you refugium first you will get the benefit of the nutrient uptake from the critters and algae before any other equipment has to work on it but you will lose the continuous supply of fresh live zooplankton that would have been pumped in to your display tank and they will be getting removed be the filter stages that follow so it all depends on what is your primary reason for the refugium in your situation I would split the down pipe and feed the refugium with 25% of the water and then bypass the rest of the sump to the return section so you get the best of both.

 

[Murica]

If you refugium first you will get the benefit of the nutrient uptake from the critters and algae before any other equipment has to work on it but you will lose the continuous supply of fresh live zooplankton that would have been pumped in to your display tank and they will be getting removed be the filter stages that follow so it all depends on what is your primary reason for the refugium in your situation I would split the down pipe and feed the refugium with 25% of the water and then bypass the rest of the sump to the return section so you get the best of both.

Ahh yes I didn't think about that. The pods definitely wouldn't last with my socks. I could cut the sump so the socks are before the refugium

 

[Murica]

I'm just curious if you really need to move the sump to the basement.. I don't know what impact will have that on the temperature of the water going there and back.. And of course in your electricity bill too due to Heating the water. If the room temperature of the basement is much different than where the DT is.

Of course you know better your installation.. I'm just pointing some thing from a friend experience.

In my sump I have the water coming to the filter sock. Then the skimmer, then goes through refugium and then back to the DT. Until now no phosphate problem.

Good point. Still need to put it in the basement but I'll focus on insulating it too

 

[Flippers4pups]

Just go sockless. I do. Temp not as bad as it seems on my basement sump.

 

[Murica]

Just go sockless. I do. Temp not as bad as it seems on my basement sump.

I was thinking about that. Do you have a lot of particulate matter in your tank and does the detritus build up quicker?

 

[Flippers4pups]

I was thinking about that. Do you have a lot of particulate matter in your tank and does the detritus build up quicker?

No. Water clarity is very good. Detritus settles in my first chamber which is my skimmer section. Vacuum that out once every couple months.

 

[Ron Reefman]

I think you have the potential of having a very good system.

When I had my big system (435g total) set up a few years ago I had a 10'x2'x18" (180g) sump/refugium. I made it from an old acrylic frag tank that came from an LFS who switched to glass tanks. At the left end I did the filter socks first, then the 65g refugium. Then a 45g DSB with 8" of sugar fine sand and a slow flow and a ball valve controlled by-pass (I'd use a gate valve if I was doing it again). Then the a 35g return pump and evaporation section. And from the right end of the sump a 35g section full of LR and my skimmer (fed directly from the DT).

The macroalgae did OK at exporting nitrate and phosphate. I think the DSB did its job. I never had any issues with it and it made a great place to grow out frags from my tank and acclimate corals I bought (or collected while snorkeling in the Keys). Feeding the skimmer directly from the DT means anything from the refugium (zooplankton, copepods, whatever) didn't get removed before going to the DT. I rarely did water changes and even when I did, it was only 25g of a 435g system every 3 or 4 months. And I did them more out of guilt about the need to do it than about the tanks real need for it! LOL!

I don't have any good big photos, but here is one from the build and one from just after it was set up and roughed in. You can see the size and sections of the sump/refugium.

 

[Murica]

I think you have the potential of having a very good system.

When I had my big system (435g total) set up a few years ago I had a 10'x2'x18" (180g) sump/refugium. I made it from an old acrylic frag tank that came from an LFS who switched to glass tanks. At the left end I did the filter socks first, then the 65g refugium. Then a 45g DSB with 8" of sugar fine sand and a slow flow and a ball valve controlled by-pass (I'd use a gate valve if I was doing it again). Then the a 35g return pump and evaporation section. And from the right end of the sump a 35g section full of LR and my skimmer (fed directly from the DT).

The macroalgae did OK at exporting nitrate and phosphate. I think the DSB did its job. I never had any issues with it and it made a great place to grow out frags from my tank and acclimate corals I bought (or collected while snorkeling in the Keys). Feeding the skimmer directly from the DT means anything from the refugium (zooplankton, copepods, whatever) didn't get removed before going to the DT. I rarely did water changes and even when I did, it was only 25g of a 435g system every 3 or 4 months. And I did them more out of guilt about the need to do it than about the tanks real need for it! LOL!

I don't have any good big photos, but here is one from the build and one from just after it was set up and roughed in. You can see the size and sections of the sump/refugium.

Thank you for the info! The only reason I'd do water changes is to replenish nutrients.. Cause there will be more than with water volume and bacteria to keep the system clean. Do skimmers really kill that much where it would be better to have it before the refugium?

 

[Ron Reefman]

You're welcome. And I agree about the water change for nutrients.

I don't think the skimmer collects much live stuff. But really small stuff like zooplankton and phytoplankton may just get floated up in the foam so they are lost to your tank. Maybe even copepods. I suppose it depends on what percentage of your flow is going through the skimmer. I just designed mine to maximize as much as I could. But then I had a huge space (10'x2'). My new little system (50g cube and 40g sump/refugium) has drain water through a sock, then the refugium and then to the return pump. The skimmer is in with the return pump and I'd guess less than half of the flow gets through the skimmer. But then I'll have lots of space under my rockscape for copepods to live since almost none of my rocks even touch the sand. The rockscape for the cube is going on now in my build thread. There's a link to it in my signature below.

 

[Murica]

Will a typical basement sump pump work, like one from Lowe's? Or does it need to be a one specialized for aquariums.

 

[WWIII]

Will a typical basement sump pump work, like one from Lowe's? Or does it need to be a one specialized for aquariums.

I would recommend one specifically for aquariums. Salt is hard on equipment and you want to make sure the pump can handle it. Also, some generic basement sump pumps could leach unwanted heavy metals into your system. Saltwater tank specific external pumps can be found just as cheap, if not more affordable. Iwaki, panworld (blueline) pumps are very powerful, dependable, and affordable, especially if you can find a used one.

 

[Murica]

Work in progress.. Hope I don't have any leaks [emoji51]

 

[Murica]

I would recommend one specifically for aquariums. Salt is hard on equipment and you want to make sure the pump can handle it. Also, some generic basement sump pumps could leach unwanted heavy metals into your system. Saltwater tank specific external pumps can be found just as cheap, if not more affordable. Iwaki, panworld (blueline) pumps are very powerful, dependable, and affordable, especially if you can find a used one.

I love Amazon so much.. Just got some very powerful jebao sump pumps on the cheap. The one I got was actually cheaper than the weaker ones. They must be on sale somewhere..

 

[WWIII]

I love Amazon so much.. Just got some very powerful jebao sump pumps on the cheap. The one I got was actually cheaper than the weaker ones. They must be on sale somewhere..

Yeah it's weird with the jebao pumps on amazon and the prices. The powerheads are the same way. I guess it's supply/demand or something? I've bought a couple jebao products, some do pretty good for a while. They are very affordable. Looks like your gonna be in buisness soon! Basement sumps are awesome!

 

[Murica]

Just got it up and running.. Can't say I didn't shed a tear haha. I'll send a pic once the mess is all cleaned up

 

[Murica]

100 pounds of rock like a wall to block the pumps from receiving any lights, also to maximize water flow between them. The empty space will be for the chaeto when it grows.

 

[Murica]

Don't mind the make shift cover, my glass cover shattered. :/

How much gas exchange does a tank need? In other words, should I cover my refugium completely to prevent humidity or is more open air better?

I need to justify adding thirty more bucks a month to my electric bill by keeping the humidifier on.