Question About Vacuuming Sand Bed

[GoVols]

For future reference, the vast majority of our bacteria is in the rocks.

+1

And... an old sandbed does hold in phosphates.

We used to run those old deep sandbed's, but it was too spooky to do maintenance on one.

 

[Mastiffsrule]

YES.. a sandbed thread (getting popcorn)

That movie freaks me out. Definitely that scene.

I just pulled my gravel out after 10 years for my tank reset. I rinsed the sand until no cloud at all. I dropped it in the tank and it settled right on bottom. I also vacuum it. The stuff I pull up is detris and poop since I rinsed the sand. I hate dirt. unless it’s being used for a deep sand bed, I would clean it.

But then again, anything cluttered or not in order make me crazy. Or more crazy than usual.;Nailbiting

 

[BestMomEver]

Yeah, I was looking for some, but I cannot find any local shops that have any and when I've looked online they have been sold out. I will check again later today though.

On a side note: the Tusk is absolutely worth the hassle of having to find alternative ways to manage clean up without crabs and shrimp. He is quickly becoming my favorite fish.

Try IPSF.com Indo Pacific Sea Farms

 

[jtl]

I am a believer in vacuuming sand beds have been doing this for over 30 years. I also keep the depth of the sand at about 3/4" so I can clean the between the glass and the sand. I hate the look of stuff growing between the sand and the glass. I think keeping the sand clean goes a long ways to keeping NO3 and PO4 in check and significantly reduces algae growth. I like a pristine tank, almost to a fault. So clean I had to dose for NO3 and PO4. When I recently took my tank down and removed the sand there was hardly anything in it and the water was almost clear.

 

[BestMomEver]

So, for all you sand bed cleaners out there.... how do you clean the sand behind and under the rocks. In most reef tanks I’ve seen, doing either of those things is virtually impossible. Some tanks are set up with islands and more open space but typically You’re only cleaning the very front section. Depending on the tank size, that is only a few inches. I’m not sure you could claim that you’re cleaning the sand bed when you can only get to about 1/3 of it.

I continue to politely disagree but, I don’t disturb my sand bed. I let it do it’s job. I do agree that most of the good stuff is in the rock but sand is important too. Mother Nature says so!

 

[jtl]

You obviously cannot clean under the base rock but I set my tanks up to leave sufficient room to clean the back glass and reach the sand bed. My base rock only covered about 20% of the sand bed. I have seen hundreds of threads where people are frustrated with the amount of HA and other nasty stuff in their tanks and when I see pictures I can understand why. A dirty sand bed is not a prerequisite for a healthy tank.. Otoh, I know people who don't care about appearance but prefer to keep things natural and that is their choice. The greater danger is having an undisturbed sand bed and then one day mixing it all into the water column releasing toxins.

 

[mta_morrow]

I clean my sand bed every couple months or so. I do it to just get excess junk out and keep it a bit cleaner looking.

I can get about 75% of all the sand I can see, in front, sides, and in the back.

I don't have much sand under the rocks, and what I do have gets moved regularly by 3 gobies, 3 zebra darts, and 2 pistol shrimp.

I don't have a particular stance on if its good or bad.

Like I said, I don't do it on a schedule, just when I feel like it to keep it decent looking and to remove what I would consider excess junk so nothing bad builds up over time.

 

[BeejReef]

This is some intricate stuff, but I happened upon it in a deep dive on unrelated insanity.

The carbon cycle. My humble and very basic understanding is that both camps are essentially correct. Organisms and bacteria do clean the sand. However, mother nature does slow, incremental "sand changes." New sand is made and deposited on top. Old sand is buried and eventually recycled into the earth's core by plate tectonics.

If you've had your coffee... the ocean and geosphere sections

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_cycle

 

[Marco S]

Can you get a Diamond Goby?
Your tank will look like a sandstorm... for awhile, but the silt will free up and get out, with one of those.

The Python No Spill will do the job too.
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/python-no-spill-water-change-system.html
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/no-spill-clean-fill-replacement-gravel-tubes-python.html

I can, but then I would have to catch my Tusk and relocate him for a bit when I introduce the Goby. I may get one down the road, but I'd have to figure out how to QT it as well since it needs sand and I am not sure how they do with copper. So, I guess the answer is yes, but it isn't anywhere in my short term plans.

 

[Marco S]

That movie freaks me out. Definitely that scene.

I just pulled my gravel out after 10 years for my tank reset. I rinsed the sand until no cloud at all. I dropped it in the tank and it settled right on bottom. I also vacuum it. The stuff I pull up is detris and poop since I rinsed the sand. I hate dirt. unless it’s being used for a deep sand bed, I would clean it.

But then again, anything cluttered or not in order make me crazy. Or more crazy than usual.;Nailbiting

I wasn't going for a "Deep Sand Bed" when I decided on sand. It is purely aesthetic and not at all utility, I just really prefer the look to a bare bottom tank. That being said, if the stuff I was sucking out was potentially good, then I would want to keep it. That is the reason I posted to find out if I should keep it or continue to vacuum it out.

 

[Marco S]

So, for all you sand bed cleaners out there.... how do you clean the sand behind and under the rocks. In most reef tanks I’ve seen, doing either of those things is virtually impossible. Some tanks are set up with islands and more open space but typically You’re only cleaning the very front section. Depending on the tank size, that is only a few inches. I’m not sure you could claim that you’re cleaning the sand bed when you can only get to about 1/3 of it.

I continue to politely disagree but, I don’t disturb my sand bed. I let it do it’s job. I do agree that most of the good stuff is in the rock but sand is important too. Mother Nature says so!

All my rock work is directly on the glass. For the sand that gets under the edges, I took the vacuum and put it right up against the rock and just let it suck all the sand up and then when I am done it releases the sand back into the gaps. I then level some parts out with a very small raking tool and make sure it looks good.

 

[ScottB]

I too am a believer in managing a clean sand bed. I have come upon a lazy way to do it. This IS NOT recommended for anyone who has let their sand go unattended.

Just before each (2 week) WC, I clamp an MJ1200 pump inside the tank with a soft silicone hose attached to the output and just blast away. All of my base rock is suspended on acrylic rod so that I can blast under the rock as well. The tank will go completely clouded -- nearly opaque. I then twist a few gates valves and my return pump sucks out 35 gallons of chocolate milk into my sewer line. Reverse the valves and fire a pump in my basement mixing station and refill. Then I will blast the rock and let the socks catch the rest of it.

A shout out to my wife here. She insisted I figure out a way to stop hauling buckets of salt water around the house. Twice a month I am really glad she insisted. Plumbing a line to your mixing station makes WCs almost a joy. The larger the tank, the more critical this enhancement is.

 

[Marco S]

I too am a believer in managing a clean sand bed. I have come upon a lazy way to do it. This IS NOT recommended for anyone who has let their sand go unattended.

Just before each (2 week) WC, I clamp an MJ1200 pump inside the tank with a soft silicone hose attached to the output and just blast away. All of my base rock is suspended on acrylic rod so that I can blast under the rock as well. The tank will go completely clouded -- nearly opaque. I then twist a few gates valves and my return pump sucks out 35 gallons of chocolate milk into my sewer line. Reverse the valves and fire a pump in my basement mixing station and refill. Then I will blast the rock and let the socks catch the rest of it.

A shout out to my wife here. She insisted I figure out a way to stop hauling buckets of salt water around the house. Twice a month I am really glad she insisted. Plumbing a line to your mixing station makes WCs almost a joy. The larger the tank, the more critical this enhancement is.

I plan on eventually setting up a proper water station so I can do something like this, but in the mean time I just fill up my 44 gallon Brute Trashcan a couple days before I need the water. Yeah I know I am low tech, but someday I'll catch up.

 

[mta_morrow]

I plan on eventually setting up a proper water station so I can do something like this, but in the mean time I just fill up my 44 gallon Brute Trashcan a couple days before I need the water. Yeah I know I am low tech, but someday I'll catch up.

Low tech here and love my Brutes as well!

 

[brandon429]

after being privy to 14, 544 online debates about sandbeds I'm 100% positive this is the summary:

both ways, the clean vs the stored up natural condition, will work for years and years and years and years

that's why people with successful untouched beds feel slighted when we come in and rinse them with tap water claiming the stuff in them is bad~ their tank is literally working fine, how can it be bad. Azdesert rat has a sandbed untouched going on 20 years now in a 150 g tank last I heard, there really are old examples of success out there w the 90s version of deep sand beds in place.


The reason for the change to less detritus storage is simply a change in the hobby in response to the different dynamics clean systems present over the old ones.

The real deal is: we used to be told that hands off was the ONLY way and now we know that is not the case. simply choose your dynamics, build that, plant corals on it, and go. Having a totally cleaned sandbed runs like not having one at all, and we know many examples exist of successful bare bottom tanks that store little to no internal waste for breakdown.

Why was Mike Paletta's (sp?) massive awesome and costly new pro reef made without a dsb from 1997?


having an occasionally cleaned sb is also ok, we can see.


if you want to know how to manage/deal/move/upgrade/access/clean or look sideways at an old school sandbed without it killing your tank (at no time does a clean bed kill anyones tank, opening with that dichotomy) then the sand rinse thread has 23 pages of working with sandbeds and never killing a single tank. Try running a sandbed access thread without highlighting the dangers of stored up waste and you will have six crashes by page 2.

the sole singular reason the sand rinse thread will never kill anyones tank even if we tap rinse a 20 yr old sandbed with hot sink water is because detritus is the risk, never, ever a lack of bacteria. detritus really is totally risky but only after it ages and compiles.

its possible to arrange tank details to handle stored up waste, or use fish for turnover, but some choose to forego the counter planning it takes to be safe around that waste by designing ways to keep it out.

 

[Marco S]

after being privy to 14, 544 online debates about sandbeds I'm 100% positive this is the summary:

both ways, the clean vs the stored up natural condition, will work for years and years and years and years

that's why people with successful untouched beds feel slighted when we come in and rinse them with tap water claiming the stuff in them is bad~ their tank is literally working fine, how can it be bad. Azdesert rat has a sandbed untouched going on 20 years now in a 150 g tank last I heard, there really are old examples of success out there w the 90s version of deep sand beds in place.


The reason for the change to less detritus storage is simply a change in the hobby in response to the different dynamics clean systems present over the old ones.

The real deal is: we used to be told that hands off was the ONLY way and now we know that is not the case. simply choose your dynamics, build that, plant corals on it, and go. Having a totally cleaned sandbed runs like not having one at all, and we know many examples exist of successful bare bottom tanks that store little to no internal waste for breakdown.

Why was Mike Paletta's (sp?) massive awesome and costly new pro reef made without a dsb from 1997?


having an occasionally cleaned sb is also ok, we can see.


if you want to know how to manage/deal/move/upgrade/access/clean or look sideways at an old school sandbed without it killing your tank (at no time does a clean bed kill anyones tank, opening with that dichotomy) then the sand rinse thread has 23 pages of working with sandbeds and never killing a single tank. Try running a sandbed access thread without highlighting the dangers of stored up waste and you will have six crashes by page 2.

the sole singular reason the sand rinse thread will never kill anyones tank even if we tap rinse a 20 yr old sandbed with hot sink water is because detritus is the risk, never, ever a lack of bacteria. detritus really is totally risky but only after it ages and compiles.

its possible to arrange tank details to handle stored up waste, or use fish for turnover, but some choose to forego the counter planning it takes to be safe around that waste by designing ways to keep it out.

Very interesting information. I never planned on a DSB and just wanted the sand for aesthetics, so I guess I will keep cleaning it going forward.

 

[mta_morrow]

I asked these guys the following question:

Is cleaning your sand bed the proper way to maintain a reef tank?

 

[Phycodurus]

So, for all you sand bed cleaners out there.... how do you clean the sand behind and under the rocks. In most reef tanks I’ve seen, doing either of those things is virtually impossible. Some tanks are set up with islands and more open space but typically You’re only cleaning the very front section. Depending on the tank size, that is only a few inches. I’m not sure you could claim that you’re cleaning the sand bed when you can only get to about 1/3 of it.

I continue to politely disagree but, I don’t disturb my sand bed. I let it do it’s job. I do agree that most of the good stuff is in the rock but sand is important too. Mother Nature says so!

i gravitate towards the "leave as-is" camp, partly because i do have a degree of inaccessibility in my main 180G tank. what sand i do have exposed, i'm kind of guilty of covering with scolys and other LPS here and there. but i have brain-stormed more than once a practical way to reach those (nearly-) inaccessible areas ... at least occassionally.

i've been meaning to try a turkey baster with a curved extension to it. a small powerhead may well do the job, but i feel that a turkey baster is just what's needed to address small patches at a time without shifting the water chemistry too badly (if it's the case that potential noxious elements are present). my sandbed is only about 2" at it's deepest. i rely on small conchs, ceriths, cucumbers, and gobies to address my sandbed, although they may not realistically get past further than a 1/2 inch. i plan on later adding leopard wrasses that i'm sure will help further.


respectfully,
rick

 

[AquaFlow]

For future reference, the vast majority of our bacteria is in the rocks.

Rinsing sand will have little to no impact on bacteria population.

Also bacteria reproduces fast. Any depletion will be quickly repopulated.

I thought the whole purpose of live sand was due to the fact that it has bacteria already in it and rinsing it before putting in the tank would reduce the amount of active bacteria introduced into the tank.

 

[Marco S]

I thought the whole purpose of live sand was due to the fact that it has bacteria already in it and rinsing it before putting in the tank would reduce the amount of active bacteria introduced into the tank.

And that was why I spent extra on "Live" sand, but it was mainly to get the tank cycled faster. Now that the bacteria has built up on my rock and my Marine Pure bricks and bio balls though, I am not really concerned about the bacteria in the sand. I would rather have clean looking sand that serves no purpose than dirty looking sand that is useful if I can. Especially since I cannot keep a traditional CUC.