Question for those that have a basement system. CO2!!!

[anit77]

Hehe, yea, an aptaisia tank.
Breeding Berghia's and they gotta eat [emoji6]

 

[bobyboy]

This is my skimmer. Air does not vent out at the top, it connects to a diy skimmate locker through the hose in the pic.

I think he drilled the cap of the collector and then pulls the moist air from the popping bubbles there to feed the scrubber that then returns to the skimmer with a T valave to adjust the fresh air.

 

[Want2BS8ed]

I think he drilled the cap of the collector and then pulls the moist air from the popping bubbles there to feed the scrubber that then returns to the skimmer with a T valave to adjust the fresh air.

Exactly! Although the T-Valve is a 24 volt solenoid valve that is actuated by an APEX. pH is low and air is drawn from the skimmer cup through the CO2 scrubber. It hits 8.3 and the valve actuates bypassing the scrubber and saving media. When the pH hits 8.1, the valve closes and begins drawing through the scrubber again. There is some upfront investment in the valve, but it really couldn't be any simpler and the pH stays within whatever range you choose.

As I said in the other thread, if I dropped the trigger ranges down and wasn't being so greedy the media would probably last even longer.

My very first skimmer was a squat little square thing from ReefLake (you know back in the days when we had spinning bars over DLS and called them mini-reefs?). My second skimmer was a 4' tall MTC with two lime wood air blocks. It may have been old school, but it actually was the best skimmer I've owned in 30 some odd years of reef keeping. It also was as a closed skimmer like yours to run ozone.

Running a closed system would have no impact on the installation. If anything it would make the recycling of scrubbed air that much more efficient.

I still think the best place to drill and tap would be the skimmer collection cup, but you could use the top of your skimmate locker... although if you are like me and forget to put the level control sensor back in when emptying the bucket (not that I may have done that before... multiple times), when the skimmate locker fills (or overfills) it might draw skimmate into the air intake.

M

 

[Quinnchero]

This may help...

Those are 3/8" lines (including the valve), which are the standard input size for the MRC Orca skimmer. Here is one of the threads as well:

My Experience Raising pH

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?share_fid=1020&share_tid=394826&url=https://www.reef2reef.com/index.php?threads/My-Experience-Raising-pH.394826/&share_type=t

If you have more specific questions, just let me know.

M

Thank you. I have all the parts hanging around in the garage and looks like I have some DIY time in the near future. We live in an are that gets to and stays above 100F through most of the Summer months...so needless to say we cannot open the house up. That on top of a very "tight" home with 4 breathing adults and two dogs leads to a CO2 lvl breaking 2,000 ppm on a daily basis. Within minutes of installing my CO2 scrubber the pH increased and continued to so so for a .4 increase and stabilization. But I am constantly dealing with ultra dry air (< 10% at its very worst) eating up the Soda Lime like chocolate. But your post has sent me down the rabbit hole into DIY humidifiers. I had completely forgotten the BRS video on this method..so thanks for that reminder as well.

Quinn

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

FWIW, unless you have a CO2 point source on the floor, CO2 is not higher at floor level. It is well established that air does not separate out like that.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Without any other changes to my system since then how could the lower pH and constantly dropping Alk not be tied together?

How could they be tied? There’s no known mechanism for lower pH to increase alk consumption. There are two clear mechanisms the other way around: lower pH reduces alk demand.

In your case, corals or coralline may have grown, increasing demand.

Test error is also possible, and I can’t tell you how much time we spend trying to convince folks that the strange results they get are likely test error rather than some effect no other reefers observes.

 

[anit77]

How could they be tied? There’s no known mechanism for lower pH to increase alk consumption. There are two clear mechanisms the other way around: lower pH reduces alk demand.

In your case, corals or coralline may have grown, increasing demand.

Test error is also possible, and I can’t tell you how much time we spend trying to convince folks that the strange results they get are likely test error rather than some effect no other reefers observes.

I try to remove as many variables as I can when testing and keep things as consistent as possible. I primarily test alk and cal with hanna checkers. I use clean vials and do the tests the same way every time. When I get something that seems off I verify my results with a retest and if its still is odd I cross check with Red Sea Pro.

With alk, the difference between the two kits is usually +/- .1 to .2dkh.
It wasn't always that way and I'd see larger variations. That's when I started my current methods and store the reagents better. If they get close to expiring I just replace them.

The only thing that's different about my system over the last several months is there a bunch of baby snails that have hatched. But I'm not seeing a drop in calcium that corresponds with the alk drop. There's no precip on pumps, powerheads or UV and the heaters are virtually unused in quite some time but there are clean.
I've had problems keeping alk in the system from the beginning and I've tried to address every thing I can and almost all of it is from your articles. I've even had people tell me I was dosing more 2part than they though I needed in the past. The only time I got it stable was the three months of this year, from late Feb to late May, when I could keep a window open. The pH and Alk were so stable hardly checked it. I even sent out an icp test to ATI and Triton and their number were very close to mine.

Is there any other info I can supply that will help you figure out where the alk is going or what I'm doing wrong?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

How much alkalinity (in dKH per day) are you dosing?

Is there any reason to think it is not normal consumption?

 

[RtomKinMad]

Hello, we had the same problem a month ago. We live in Wisconsin and had to close the windows when it got over 80degrees. With windows open ph is great 8.0-8.2. With windows closed would drop to 7.6-7.8. We have 300gal upstairs and sump in the basement. We were dosing tons of Balance weekly about 80$ a week. Got a co 2 scrubber but alone wasn’t doing much. So my husband drilled a line/hose to outside and put it to the co2 scrubber and then to the skimmer. Ph is now stable at 8.0 with minimal drop at night. Also we are still dosing balance but significantly less and reasonable now. Hope this helps I know I gave you a simple version. We had to do a lot of research to figure it out. Good luck.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Hello, we had the same problem a month ago. We live in Wisconsin and had to close the windows when it got over 80degrees. With windows open ph is great 8.0-8.2. With windows closed would drop to 7.6-7.8. We have 300gal upstairs and sump in the basement. We were dosing tons of Balance weekly about 80$ a week. Got a co 2 scrubber but alone wasn’t doing much. So my husband drilled a line/hose to outside and put it to the co2 scrubber and then to the skimmer. Ph is now stable at 8.0 with minimal drop at night. Also we are still dosing balance but significantly less and reasonable now. Hope this helps I know I gave you a simple version. We had to do a lot of research to figure it out. Good luck.

Bear in mind balance is an alkalinity additive.

Balance is just hydroxide, which is fine (the highest possible pH boost per unit of alk added), but you can diy for far, far less.

Search for food grade sodium hydroxide.

It is the basis for this high pH two part:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/second-new-diy-two-part-recipe-with-higher-ph-boost.357080/

 

[anit77]

How much alkalinity (in dKH per day) are you dosing?

Is there any reason to think it is not normal consumption?

I had been dosing 125ml a day of 2part and everything was stable until June when I started seeing the big drop in pH and an excess of 0.6 to 1dkh per day but the cal wasn't dropping in proportion to the alk. I switched to kalk at 1.54 gallons per day for 2 weeks and didn't see any benefit. I'm back on 2part and got everything leveled back out over the weekend. I pushed the dose up to 130ml/day and I will check both alk an cal daily this week and post the results. Mag is at 1390.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I had been dosing 125ml a day of 2part and everything was stable until June when I started seeing the big drop in pH and an excess of 0.6 to 1dkh per day but the cal wasn't dropping in proportion to the alk. I switched to kalk at 1.54 gallons per day for 2 weeks and didn't see any benefit. I'm back on 2part and got everything leveled back out over the weekend. I pushed the dose up to 130ml/day and I will check both alk an cal daily this week and post the results. Mag is at 1390.

I suspect the calcium is dropping close to proportionally, it is just hard to see without testing that is more precise than hobby kits (you'd only expect a few ppm per day).

Hydroxide (in a DIY two part, limewater/kalkwasser or Aquavitro Balance) has about twice the pH raising effect as a carbonate based two part.

 

[anit77]

Exactly! Although the T-Valve is a 24 volt solenoid valve that is actuated by an APEX. pH is low and air is drawn from the skimmer cup through the CO2 scrubber. It hits 8.3 and the valve actuates bypassing the scrubber and saving media. When the pH hits 8.1, the valve closes and begins drawing through the scrubber again. There is some upfront investment in the valve, but it really couldn't be any simpler and the pH stays within whatever range you choose.

As I said in the other thread, if I dropped the trigger ranges down and wasn't being so greedy the media would probably last even longer.

My very first skimmer was a squat little square thing from ReefLake (you know back in the days when we had spinning bars over DLS and called them mini-reefs?). My second skimmer was a 4' tall MTC with two lime wood air blocks. It may have been old school, but it actually was the best skimmer I've owned in 30 some odd years of reef keeping. It also was as a closed skimmer like yours to run ozone.

Running a closed system would have no impact on the installation. If anything it would make the recycling of scrubbed air that much more efficient.

I still think the best place to drill and tap would be the skimmer collection cup, but you could use the top of your skimmate locker... although if you are like me and forget to put the level control sensor back in when emptying the bucket (not that I may have done that before... multiple times), when the skimmate locker fills (or overfills) it might draw skimmate into the air intake.

M

I am going to give this a try before getting an ERV. It is less costly to do right now and if works great. If not I can always get the ERV. It's just that BRS is out of stock on the Soda Lime now...

Does it matter where you put the solenoid, on the fresh air line or the skimmer line?

 

[anit77]

I suspect the calcium is dropping close to proportionally, it is just hard to see without testing that is more precise than hobby kits (you'd only expect a few ppm per day).

Hydroxide (in a DIY two part, limewater/kalkwasser or Aquavitro Balance) has about twice the pH raising effect as a carbonate based two part.

I'm using BRS 2part now. If I switch the Alk to sodium hydroxide would I need to lower it's dose compared to the Cal dose?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I'm using BRS 2part now. If I switch the Alk to sodium hydroxide would I need to lower it's dose compared to the Cal dose?

it is designed to the same alk and calcium potency, just a bigger pH boost.

 

[anit77]

it is designed to the same alk and calcium potency, just a bigger pH boost.

Sweet! Thank you for all your help!!!
I've ordered.

I'll still post up my results over the next few days.

 

[anit77]

Yesterday I was at. Alk 8.18; Cal 411; pH 7.93. Adjusted Alk to 9.5 & cal to 425.
Today. Alk 9.24; Cal 424; pH 8.03

 

[RtomKinMad]

Bear in mind balance is an alkalinity additive.

Balance is just hydroxide, which is fine (the highest possible pH boost per unit of alk added), but you can diy for far, far less.

Search for food grade sodium hydroxide.

It is the basis for this high pH two part:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/second-new-diy-two-part-recipe-with-higher-ph-boost.357080/

Oh, thank you so much. We really appreciate your help. Will try! Thank you

 

[RtomKinMad]

it is designed to the same alk and calcium potency, just a bigger pH boost.

Thank you this helps us too!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Thank you this helps us too!

You're welcome.

Happy Reefing.